The Trail Cam Celebration

[twigsnapper]

How many of you have submitted your name to all 5 commissioners to be on the committee? I hope all. The committee needs to be made up of a diverse group, but I get the feeling none of the folks on this forum that continue to criticize will step up and be a part of the solution(except Flatlander and SirRoyl). I keep hearing about how the rich want the tags but the reality is there are plenty of land owner tags around the country, Canada and Mexico where they can go kill 200" muleys and 380-400" bulls. Does AZ offer some great hunting? Yes, but get real, these guys can buy $60,000 stone sheep hunts and $50,000 Desert sheep hunts all day long. Don't fool yourself into thinking a December coues tag or a Sept bull hunt has that much value to a guy who can buy anything he wants. Although these tags have tremendous value to you and me as average fellas, the reality is the rich see things much different that you or I. Even the critics on this forum supported forming the committee, now get involved or please stop crying wolf....

[GreyGhost85]

How many of you have submitted your name to all 5 commissioners to be on the committee? I hope all. The committee needs to be made up of a diverse group, but I get the feeling none of the folks on this forum that continue to criticize will step up and be a part of the solution(except Flatlander and SirRoyl). I keep hearing about how the rich want the tags but the reality is there are plenty of land owner tags around the country, Canada and Mexico where they can go kill 200" muleys and 380-400" bulls. Does AZ offer some great hunting? Yes, but get real, these guys can buy $60,000 stone sheep hunts and $50,000 Desert sheep hunts all day long. Don't fool yourself into thinking a December coues tag or a Sept bull hunt has that much value to a guy who can buy anything he wants. Although these tags have tremendous value to you and me as average fellas, the reality is the rich see things much different that you or I. Even the critics on this forum supported forming the committee, now get involved or please stop crying wolf....

The biggest mulies, elk and consistently biggest desert sheep in the WORLD come from arizona. 200 mulies and 400 bulls do nothing for them. That is why people spend their money here. There isnt a landowner tag on earth as good as an Arizona statewide tag Andy and you know it. The people that buy these tags, outside of rhoton, are not physically capable of killing a giant animal on a non auction tag. The commission elects the committee, right? Just like the committee elects the commission? See a similarity? Let me post up a list of current CAPAZ and SFW members. Guarantee the education committee is near identical.

[twigsnapper]

"There isn’t a landowner tag on earth as good as an Arizona statewide tag Andy and you know it." You are 100% correct.

 

But the current proposal isn't for state wide tags and 365 day seasons. You are comparing apples and watermelons.

[twigsnapper]

There are plenty of landowner tags around north america that are just as good as an average sheep tag or a trophy elk tag though, and the guys that want them can buy them regularly. My point is, what are you doing to get on the committee??

[GJMauro12]

https://wildlife.utah.gov/utah-expo-permits-faq.html#q1

[twigsnapper]

 

Mexico = 70

AZ = 77

 

Mexico - All purchased

AZ - At most 8 were purchased, 69-70 were drawn

[twigsnapper]

[twigsnapper]

[twigsnapper]

Back to the original purpose of this post, I agree, send the commissioners a "thanks" for the outcome of the trail cam rule. They need to hear appreciation when warranted.....

[twigsnapper]

Here is one to support GreyGhost

[trphyhntr]

How much did the statewide Colorado deer tag go for compared to AZ?

[GreyGhost85]

I never said the most entries there bud, i said the highest scoring. Keep pounding your chest. You are forgetting one important fact about why auction tags are more desirable than landowner tags, albeit more expensive, they are a tax write off.

[azbugler]

CAPAZ is a 501C4 organization. I believe this means there is no tax write off. And GreyGhost85, if you want to influence others to take the side you support, there are better ways. In talking to many AZ outdoorsman in the last few months, most Ive talked to are pro CAPAZ at this point. Lets look at facts and not just purely from an emotional standpoint. I agree with the fact that many of these tags will be of little interest to the rich if they do include regular season, and antlerless tags.

[Flatlander]

How many of you have submitted your name to all 5 commissioners to be on the committee? I hope all. The committee needs to be made up of a diverse group, but I get the feeling none of the folks on this forum that continue to criticize will step up and be a part of the solution(except Flatlander and SirRoyl). I keep hearing about how the rich want the tags but the reality is there are plenty of land owner tags around the country, Canada and Mexico where they can go kill 200" muleys and 380-400" bulls. Does AZ offer some great hunting? Yes, but get real, these guys can buy $60,000 stone sheep hunts and $50,000 Desert sheep hunts all day long. Don't fool yourself into thinking a December coues tag or a Sept bull hunt has that much value to a guy who can buy anything he wants. Although these tags have tremendous value to you and me as average fellas, the reality is the rich see things much different that you or I. Even the critics on this forum supported forming the committee, now get involved or please stop crying wolf....

I have been trying to avoid contributing to the hijacking of SirRoyals thread, but since we have come this far, well, I guess I am all in.

 

TS - I dont follow your point about these tags not being valuable, or what the point of all of these bar charts is.

 

The heartburn that I have is that Pete in particular has been undeviating in his pursuit of tags. He has changed his position drastically on how those tags would be used, but will not move off of his commitment to using tags. And when he has been challenged on the topic he has insulted and patronized those who have spoken up.

 

In regard to the committee, why are you telling everyone to try and get on the committee when we know there will only be seven members. I think people should be supporting parties who are already involved in the discussion and then attending the committee meetings when they happen.

 

One suggestion would be to email a commissioner and express your concerns about the committee being made up of a diverse group and not just the CAPAZ board.

 

As far as most hunters supporting this idea, I would have to strongly disagree. Maybe we just run in different circles, but I also know when something similar happened in 2012 sportsmen were overwhelmingly opposed.

 

As far as 501©4 donations not being tax deductible, they are if they are a business expense. But the whole 501©4 discussion is interesting as AZ is already grappling with the Dark Money being poured into this state. I think I would rather know where they are getting their money.

[Nefarious Red]

To reiterate, and I know I'm repeating myself, but the discussion of Conserve and Protect Arizonas 501c4 status is irrelevant to the financial particulars of any funding methods, because they will not get the tags or the funding. To accuse them of trying to gain from this financially is akin to me accusing Flatlander of trying to gain financially from his license fee increase proposal.

 

And as far as your statement, Flatlander, about supporting people that are involved in the discussion and attend the committee meetings, I have listened to and even supported ideas that do not include the use of tags. However, in return I get accused of being a "tag grabber", even though nobody gets tags, and I have only found that the majority of the naysayers oppose the plan in general. Very, very few people have both supported the plan but opposed the use of tags.