Reminder: Trail cam meeting/webcast tonight at main G&F office

[ForkHorn]

These guides on the Strip that run hundreds of cameras have lots of pictures of big bucks that they have watched for years and nobody has ever taken them, or it took years to finally get it. Having pictures of an animal and taking that animal are often far different things, even for a skilled guide. Obviously, the further apart the time/date of the photo is from the time a hunter is trying to get that animal, the lower the chances that the animal will still be in the area. That's one reason there isn't much push-back on the cameras that send the photo.

Maybe because it's tough to glass. But in glassable country, if a picture of a big enough buck or bull is taken there is a dang good chance it's dead. And I think a lot of outfitters would tell you the same thing.

[COA]

Regarding fair chase. A steady riflerest exceeds aid in a harvest than all other hunting items optics trail cameras rangefinder combined. Im guilty of using A barrel cactus and a back pack a rock etc.

Tree stump.

[GreyGhost85]

I am pro-camera for the record. I enjoy running them as much as the next guy. I don’t however run them on water so i don’t feel too strongly one way or another on this proposed ban. I did listen to the meeting last night, as well as reading a lot of “suggestions” from sportsmen and i must say, i have not seen or heard many compelling arguments. I have heard people comparing trail cams to fish finders, incorporating a type of season similar to the no-fly rule, one guy kept harping about if he has a camera on a tank now, his grandson couldn’t legally shoot an elk off the tank ever if they end up being banned, one guy suggesting to ban outfitters and guides etc. Sir Royal’s suggestion on this thread seems to be one of the better ones but all in all, man.......

[CouesFanatic]

 

These guides on the Strip that run hundreds of cameras have lots of pictures of big bucks that they have watched for years and nobody has ever taken them, or it took years to finally get it. Having pictures of an animal and taking that animal are often far different things, even for a skilled guide. Obviously, the further apart the time/date of the photo is from the time a hunter is trying to get that animal, the lower the chances that the animal will still be in the area. That's one reason there isn't much push-back on the cameras that send the photo.

Maybe because it's tough to glass. But in glassable country, if a picture of a big enough buck or bull is taken there is a dang good chance it's dead. And I think a lot of outfitters would tell you the same thing.

 

The strip is very glassable country. My wife had a 13B tag in 2016 with MDA Outfitters. She killed a 236 buck that the guides had ONE picture of in August. They have hundreds of cameras out and they had ONE picture of a 236 inch 36 inch wide Giant Nontpyical. We were after different bucks from their cams which we never found. It's just not as easy as some guys make it seem. These guides chase the same bucks year after year. Listen to the recent podcasts on Jay Scotts page, they know cameras are helpful but its not a done deal once you get a pic, not even close.

 

I know two guys that hunted with MDA on the strip last year that hunted the whole hunt and ended up killing 190 type bucks on the last day. It's not an easy hunt. In the MDA camp in 2016 3 out of the 6 tags killed a buck, A 236, a 224ish and a 180 something. Lots of guys hire the best guides and hunt the whole hunt waiting for a 200 plus inch buck and don't get it done.

[StickFlicker]

"one guy suggesting to ban outfitters and guides etc."

 

I think you misunderstood the comment. It was saying that IF cameras are a violation of fair chase, based upon the three criteria their committee used to determine "fair chase", then guides also seem to be a violation of two of their three criteria. It was an analogy meant to say that cameras are in no more violation of their criteria than guides are. It wasn't a suggestion to ban guides.

[prowlerMan]

I am pro-camera for the record. I enjoy running them as much as the next guy. I don’t however run them on water so i don’t feel too strongly one way or another on this proposed ban. I did listen to the meeting last night, as well as reading a lot of “suggestions” from sportsmen and i must say, i have not seen or heard many compelling arguments. I have heard people comparing trail cams to fish finders, incorporating a type of season similar to the no-fly rule, one guy kept harping about if he has a camera on a tank now, his grandson couldn’t legally shoot an elk off the tank ever if they end up being banned, one guy suggesting to ban outfitters and guides etc. Sir Royal’s suggestion on this thread seems to be one of the better ones but all in all, man.......

What about permits for trail cameras? Each trail camera in use would require a permit and each individual is only allowed "x" number of permits? It would be a way for them to control the amount of cameras out there and would generate extra revenue. That extra revenue might even help towards fighting the extra auction tags they're proposing now?

[trphyhntr]

 

I am pro-camera for the record. I enjoy running them as much as the next guy. I don’t however run them on water so i don’t feel too strongly one way or another on this proposed ban. I did listen to the meeting last night, as well as reading a lot of “suggestions” from sportsmen and i must say, i have not seen or heard many compelling arguments. I have heard people comparing trail cams to fish finders, incorporating a type of season similar to the no-fly rule, one guy kept harping about if he has a camera on a tank now, his grandson couldn’t legally shoot an elk off the tank ever if they end up being banned, one guy suggesting to ban outfitters and guides etc. Sir Royal’s suggestion on this thread seems to be one of the better ones but all in all, man.......

What about permits for trail cameras? Each trail camera in use would require a permit and each individual is only allowed "x" number of permits? It would be a way for them to control the amount of cameras out there and would generate extra revenue. That extra revenue might even help towards fighting the extra auction tags they're proposing now?

 

how could they enforce that

[GreyGhost85]

 

I am pro-camera for the record. I enjoy running them as much as the next guy. I dont however run them on water so i dont feel too strongly one way or another on this proposed ban. I did listen to the meeting last night, as well as reading a lot of suggestions from sportsmen and i must say, i have not seen or heard many compelling arguments. I have heard people comparing trail cams to fish finders, incorporating a type of season similar to the no-fly rule, one guy kept harping about if he has a camera on a tank now, his grandson couldnt legally shoot an elk off the tank ever if they end up being banned, one guy suggesting to ban outfitters and guides etc. Sir Royals suggestion on this thread seems to be one of the better ones but all in all, man.......

What about permits for trail cameras? Each trail camera in use would require a permit and each individual is only allowed "x" number of permits? It would be a way for them to control the amount of cameras out there and would generate extra revenue. That extra revenue might even help towards fighting the extra auction tags they're proposing now?

No way to enforce it. Guides will have cameras registered under them, their wife, kids, parents, grand parents, etc. the ban will either not happen, or it will be wide sweeping is my guess. Too many loopholes any other way. A statewide season on trail cams, say feb 1st to aug 31st or something would probably be the only way to find any middle ground.

[Titanium700]

Then have a draw for cameras just like a big game tag..

 

Ok that was a joke.

[5guyshunting]

 

I am pro-camera for the record. I enjoy running them as much as the next guy. I don’t however run them on water so i don’t feel too strongly one way or another on this proposed ban. I did listen to the meeting last night, as well as reading a lot of “suggestions” from sportsmen and i must say, i have not seen or heard many compelling arguments. I have heard people comparing trail cams to fish finders, incorporating a type of season similar to the no-fly rule, one guy kept harping about if he has a camera on a tank now, his grandson couldn’t legally shoot an elk off the tank ever if they end up being banned, one guy suggesting to ban outfitters and guides etc. Sir Royal’s suggestion on this thread seems to be one of the better ones but all in all, man.......

What about permits for trail cameras? Each trail camera in use would require a permit and each individual is only allowed "x" number of permits? It would be a way for them to control the amount of cameras out there and would generate extra revenue. That extra revenue might even help towards fighting the extra auction tags they're proposing now?

You would just be paying extra to have your camera stolen or destroyed.

[SirRoyal]

Trphyhntr your just trying to reinvent the wheel! Lol!😁

I dont know alot but I do know nothing last forever and change is inevitable.

So yester year or the good old days are gone so its best that we are adaptable to current events .

[couesdown]

1/4 miles in each direction thats 1/2 miles across. That's basically a quarter section every time there's a water trough. Where we hunt the January archery hunt, there are water troughs that have been put in several draws to be more convenient for cattle to water. The coues deer don't use them much as there are a lot of little seeps down the bottoms of the draws. If there is a 1/4 section off limits around each one of these, it closes off a lot of land. A few of our favorite stand locations will be off limits just because they're in the wrong quarter section even though the water has nothing to do with why we've picked the spot.

 

I don't live in Arizona but I live on a 100 plus acre farm in Idaho. It got me thinking, if they made that law here, I wouldn't ever legally be able to put a camera out on my property again. Between where I water my horses and the neighbor waters his cows it would all be off limits.

[HuntHarder]

The comparison to using a fish finder and using trail cameras is why this ban will probably go into effect. That has to be one of the most unintelligent comments I have heard yet. Do us all a favor and if you are going to speak up at these meetings, please think about what you are going to say before you go there.

[MT_Sourdough]

One hundred or maybe 200 yards max is more reasonable than 440 yards in my opinion.

Plus, as I read the rules and I am no lawyer, the rules seem to imply that if some missionaries stuck a spoon in the ground 500 years ago, it still counts as a developed water source. My point is, there are developed tanks that have not held water in the time that I have lived in Arizona. It seems to be unfair to treat some always dry - one time tank as an active water source.

I am opposed to a ban in general, but i might be more understanding if distance from water source is reduced to 100 or 200 yards and if the Azgfd produced a catalogue of developed water sources to which the ban is applied.

 

One annual permit per camera with defined hunting districts and possible limitations on number permits sold in certain districts is an idea I could get behind and I run as many as a dozen cams sometimes. A good way to raise funds that is reciprocal.

I like the idea, for this would actually create a legal standing for the existence/presence of your cam as opposed to the quasi legal status that now exists.

[hoghntr]

 

Trphyhntr Is sitting water during a hunt and or hunting near a waterhole fair?

So My daughter had a cow elk tag when she was 12. The 1st mornings hunt was unfruitful so midday we sat water in comes the cows boom its over! Was that Ethical? So how can a trail camera on water which kills nothing be unethical?

lol what? Sirroyal Is getting live pics sent to your phone from the next tank over from the one you're sitting fair chase? Is that ethical? Are you even reading what I'm writing? I said live feed cams

You know when these things first came out I thought about how cool it would be to know when bucks go in the Rut by being able to look at their tarsal glands. The way you just said this is like the first time I realized exactly how much they could be abused. L.O.L. i bet some guys do more running back and forth from cam to cam then actual hunting thanks to live feed.