Conserve and Protect (Tags) Presentation at G&F Mtg

[Nefarious Red]

Where in the North American model does it say raffle tags are an abuse,unethical,or illegal? I kinda think you are hiding behind a false sense of morality to justify your misguided anger. How many hours do you spend trying to repeal the current auction or raffle tags? None.

[elkaholic]

so red --- your now the mouth piece for this bunch of tag stealers as long as it benefits you too! ???

 

you been a member all of one month and you claim to know everything -- and how it works and will how it will benefit everyone

 

dry up already and go back where you came from

[Flatlander]

Where in the North American model does it say raffle tags are an abuse,unethical,or illegal? I kinda think you are hiding behind a false sense of morality to justify your misguided anger. How many hours do you spend trying to repeal the current auction or raffle tags? None.

The auction or raffle of tags, in my evaluation, violates at least two tenants of the NAMWC.

 

1. That wildlife is allocated by law rather than by market conditions and should not favor persons based on property ownership, socio-economic status or political position.

 

2. That hunting should be accessible to all.

 

The current HPC and super raffles are a great case study for this proposal. Originally there was just the HPC, then the super raffle was added. There are currently 3 special tags for each species. Where do we draw the line when it comes to special tags for extra money? The answer the line will be wherever we decide to put it, and for me that means right where it is today and not one more tag.

 

You can accuse me of hiding or being misguided, the truth is that I am principled and committed. And without those two traits hunting will ultimately go away regardless of what the HSUS says or does. We will lose our heritage to commercialism and social media. Slowly, one day at a time we will give it away piece by piece, a tag here, a special privilege there until one day it is completely unrecognizable as the heritage we cherished. Then what will we be left with? Some magazines? A professional hunters Instagram feed? Dollars in the bank to save what . . .The rights of the privileged few?

 

No thanks.

[Nefarious Red]

so red --- your now the mouth piece for this bunch of tag stealers as long as it benefits you too! ???

how much longer are you going to continue with the bafoonery? Nobody is "stealing tags" from anyone. Your faux outrage is growing weary even in those that didn't want auction tags. You have childish arguing tactics and your constant complaining of a fictitious tag grab is worn out. I don't know if you are having reading comprehension problems, but it has been stated several times that NO organization gets any tags. Time to put your big boy pants on and cease with your theatrics.

[trophyseeker]

... and I have witnessed with my own eyes Cindi Richardson buy a raffle at a banquet by just flooding the bucket with her tickets. I didnt have a problem with it, I have a lot of respect for Corky and Cindy, but to say there is no advantage to the hunting elite is false.

Oh geez, now I really feel like an idiot.

 

Several years back at one of the banquets, they had a raffle for a black Lab pup. My wife really wanted it. So I bought $500 in tickets. If I knew that might negatively paint me as "the hunting elite," I would never have done such a dastardly deed without asking someone's permission on how I can spend my money. I'll know better next time.

 

Oh, I didn't even win the dang raffle. I don't know for sure, but that pup might have gone to a homeless person -- i.e. not one of the "elite"--who could only afford one ticket.

[elkaholic]

Hey red. U seem to be put out. So sorry but only u seem to be offended by my speaking the facts as they"ve shown no other options for funds other than tags. And yes it's stealing them

[Nefarious Red]

Hey red. U seem to be put out. So sorry but only u seem to be offended by my speaking the facts as they"ve shown no other options for funds other than tags. And yes it's stealing them

how is it stealing, when the Department keeps the tags and the funds?

And by the way, I submitted a proposal that doesn't include tags, fees, or stamps, and is voluntary as well.

 

I care about the plan. At the end of the day, if it's a license fee or raffle tag, or even my idea, I want to see the plan in place.

[idgaf]

I am still working something out in my head, who gets the HPC money

[GreyGhost85]

The supoorters know d@mn good and well that if they get one raffle tag it will very soon turn into a couple hundred raffles and a couple dozen auction tags. All they need is a foot hold. Its kinda like the 2nd ammendment battle. Do people really need full auto machines guns? Probably not. Would a few raffle tags kill us? Probably not. Like i have said before, it REALLY bothers me that Sneaky Pete is not even willing to listen to alternatives and that we as sportsmen are basically having to try to convince an outfit, that should not have ANY say in what is done with our tags in the first place, not to take them. The scary part is, last time they came at us, the commission was against it. This time, the commission is licking their chops at the idea. Isnt it weird that Sneaky Pete, amongst other CAPAZ members are on the commossioner appointing board? Isnt it wierd that Sneaky Pete always talks about million-dollar donors if this passes? Somebody is going to get rich off of this and it most definitely will not be Average Joe Hunter.

[elkaholic]

The average Joe is going to lose the opportunity to harvest a trophy animal if a raffle tag holder gets first chance . They're not talking about a single animal or species. It normally takes 6 to 7 yrs just to draw an archery elk tag.

 

Taking even a single opportunity away is stealing as far as i'm concerned.

[Nefarious Red]

Have a look at this file, Fred. There is also a section on it at the Game and Fish website

2014HPCPrioritiesforHabitatEnhancementandWildlifeManagementDRAFT4-24-2014.pdf

[Nefarious Red]

The supoorters know d@mn good and well that if they get one raffle tag it will very soon turn into a couple hundred raffles and a couple dozen auction tags. All they need is a foot hold. Its kinda like the 2nd ammendment battle. Do people really need full auto machines guns? Probably not. Would a few raffle tags kill us? Probably not. Like i have said before, it REALLY bothers me that Sneaky Pete is not even willing to listen to alternatives and that we as sportsmen are basically having to try to convince an outfit, that should not have ANY say in what is done with our tags in the first place, not to take them. The scary part is, last time they came at us, the commission was against it. This time, the commission is licking their chops at the idea. Isnt it weird that Sneaky Pete, amongst other CAPAZ members are on the commossioner appointing board? Isnt it wierd that Sneaky Pete always talks about million-dollar donors if this passes? Somebody is going to get rich off of this and it most definitely will not be Average Joe Hunter.

who is "they"? You know that nobody gets any tags, correct? The tags and funds stay with Game and Fish to fund a mission statement that already exists within the Department. That's like saying Flatlander will get the license fees for suggesting their usage.

 

And you can't just add raffle tags. They are now, and will be, governed by State statutes.

[azelkhunter2]

Fred I am on the HPC Committee. If you would like you or anyone else can call me and I will try and answer your questions. Dave 602-228 - 1719

[GreyGhost85]

You know that nobody gets any tags, correct? .

 

Perfect, something we can all agree on Red! I knew you’d come around

[Nefarious Red]

You know that nobody gets any tags, correct? .

Perfect, something we can all agree on Red! I knew you’d come around

Ha! You know what I mean. No organization gets tags. The Commission wants to fund their current model. Raffle tags was Conserve and Protect Arizona suggestion on how to fund it. There are other suggestions on the table, but with the Department's current projected shortfall, license fee increases aren't viewed as favorably by some, just as raffle tags aren't viewed as favorably by some.

 

I'd like to see my idea pan out, but it probably won't because of the logistics. At any rate, the Commission wants it funded, but just like us, they all have different ideas on how to go about doing it. You have to present your ideas to the committee that will hopefully be formed. They will have the final say.