Conserve and Protect (Tags) Presentation at G&F Mtg

[300RUM]

 

How many total tags do you think there are for elk, deer, sheep, buffalo, antelope, turkey ???? Oh and bear

less than 1% according to handout. So lets say .5%. that means about 500 elk tags, 1000 dear tags, 20 antelope tags, etc (let me know if my math is wrong)

 

I make no claims to be perfect but I do get different answers.

 

818 Total Antelope tags multiplied by 0.005 to get the 0.5% would be 4 tags

 

26,214 Total elk tags multiplied by 0.005 to get the 0.5% would be 131 tags

 

47,147 Total deer tags multiplied by 0.005 to get the 0.5% would be 236 tags.

 

Bottom line is those tags should still go to the average hunter in the standard lottery.

[trophyseeker]

 

 

less than 1% according to handout. So lets say .5%. that means about 500 elk tags, 1000 dear tags, 20 antelope tags, etc (let me know if my math is wrong)

 

 

What base numbers are using to get those totals?? Or is this just the "new" math my kids learned?

[trophyseeker]

 

 

How many total tags do you think there are for elk, deer, sheep, buffalo, antelope, turkey ???? Oh and bear

less than 1% according to handout. So lets say .5%. that means about 500 elk tags, 1000 dear tags, 20 antelope tags, etc (let me know if my math is wrong)

 

I make no claims to be perfect but I do get different answers.

 

818 Total Antelope tags multiplied by 0.005 to get the 0.5% would be 4 tags

 

26,214 Total elk tags multiplied by 0.005 to get the 0.5% would be 131 tags

 

47,147 Total deer tags multiplied by 0.005 to get the 0.5% would be 236 tags.

 

Bottom line is those tags should still go to the average hunter in the standard lottery.

 

 

Whoops! I posted before seeing your reply.

[654321]

 

How many total tags do you think there are for elk, deer, sheep, buffalo, antelope, turkey ???? Oh and bear

less than 1% according to handout. So lets say .5%. that means about 500 elk tags, 1000 dear tags, 20 antelope tags, etc (let me know if my math is wrong)

 

First off let me say I'm totaling against any tag grab effort out there, with that being said the best I can tell the total number of draw tags is around 113,963 so 1% of that would be about 1,139. I think the total number of elk was around 14,000 so even if you said 15,000 1% would be 150, deer around 49,000 so 1% would be 490 and antelope around 500 so 1% would be about 5 tags, I'll say it again though I think 1 more tag taken from the public is 1 to many.

[ThomC]

Using your numbers 150 5 point or larger bulls would be on the wall of some NY rich guy. The auction tag guys will hire a guide that will almost guarantee success. Every year the same thing over and over. The average joe will see diminishing chances. It is not sustainable. A few will benefit. $$$

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

I bet seeing those numbers makes even more guys go nuts that this is even a possibility for the commission to listen to, how in the heck could a rough draft come to the commission and them even consider one minute of their time listening to this proposal?

The statement of making this permanent is off the rails, please everyone send some emails with disapproval

[idgaf]

 

 

How many total tags do you think there are for elk, deer, sheep, buffalo, antelope, turkey ???? Oh and bear

less than 1% according to handout. So lets say .5%. that means about 500 elk tags, 1000 dear tags, 20 antelope tags, etc (let me know if my math is wrong)

 

First off let me say I'm totaling against any tag grab effort out there, with that being said the best I can tell the total number of draw tags is around 113,963 so 1% of that would be about 1,139. I think the total number of elk was around 14,000 so even if you said 15,000 1% would be 150, deer around 49,000 so 1% would be 490 and antelope around 500 so 1% would be about 5 tags, I'll say it again though I think 1 more tag taken from the public is 1 to m

 

I bet seeing those numbers makes even more guys go nuts that this is even a possibility for the commission to listen to, how in the heck could a rough draft come to the commission and them even consider one minute of their time listening to this proposal?

The statement of making this permanent is off the rails, please everyone send some emails with disapproval

 

It was called a workshop.

[COA]

A question to the g&f.

 

When they (AZ g&f) want to catch a wildlife violation/poaching incident they utilize the bulletIn and reach out to the hunting community for immediate assistance and information.

 

However with this immediate threat to the North American model and the hunting community why is there no outreach to joe publc on this topic that seems rather significant.Would they prefer to partake in private behind the hunting communities back and cater to the organization that wishes to extract/add additional tags from the department and then offer no other remedy.

[COA]

Asking for a friend.

[AZ8]

This morning I printed the CAPAZ handout from the link in the OP and went over it. Here are some problems I see. Did I miss Anything?

 

Page 1 Paragraph 5

Taking permits from existing AZGFD recommended permits should not support the program. Instead, additional permits should be added to support the program; and these permits should not have a biological consequence to the resource.

 

The number of tags in the state lottery is based on what biologists have estimated the heard can withstand without being over hunted. The proposed tags would be added above biologists recommendations. If you add tags you are going to harvest more animals. More dead animals is a biological consequence to the resource. Will increased harvests lead to reduced tag numbers in the future?

This has been my main contention. I brought this up at the meeting at BassPro that Arizona has a finite resource and can't be compared to other states. How do we add more tags without removing tags from the general pool? If simply adding more tags to the pool, how's it going to affect the harvest objectives outlined by G&F?

 

These "new" tags will HAVE to come out of the general pool if we want to meet the current harvest objectives.

[twigsnapper]

A question to the g&f.

 

When they (AZ g&f) want to catch a wildlife violation/poaching incident they utilize the bulletIn and reach out to the hunting community for immediate assistance and information.

 

However with this immediate threat to the North American model and the hunting community why is there no outreach to joe publc on this topic that seems rather significant.Would they prefer to partake in private behind the hunting communities back and cater to the organization that wishes to extract/add additional tags from the department and then offer no other remedy.

This is the very reason we need to take action. The G&F chooses to spend money on all kinds of things that dont benefit big game. They would rather spend money on studying minnows and frogs instead of educating the general public on how the system works... youre actually supporting the reasoning of CAPAZ...

[Flatlander]

 

This morning I printed the CAPAZ handout from the link in the OP and went over it. Here are some problems I see. Did I miss Anything?

 

Page 1 Paragraph 5

Taking permits from existing AZGFD recommended permits should not support the program. Instead, additional permits should be added to support the program; and these permits should not have a biological consequence to the resource.

 

The number of tags in the state lottery is based on what biologists have estimated the heard can withstand without being over hunted. The proposed tags would be added above biologists recommendations. If you add tags you are going to harvest more animals. More dead animals is a biological consequence to the resource. Will increased harvests lead to reduced tag numbers in the future?

This has been my main contention. I brought this up at the meeting at BassPro that Arizona has a finite resource and can't be compared to other states. How do we add more tags without removing tags from the general pool? If simply adding more tags to the pool, how's it going to affect the harvest objectives outlined by G&F?

 

These "new" tags will HAVE to come out of the general pool if we want to meet the current harvest objectives.

It appears SOMEONE within the department is willing to say that one or two tags sprinkled in across a bunch of different hunts would not have a biological effect.

 

We need to make the argument on the grounds that this is an attempt to benefit the wealthy and funnel more opportunity to them.

 

Kurt Davis (commissioner) has already made a point of saying that there will be no impact to the opportunity of the general hunting public if this is employed.

 

He wants to argue semantics so we need to be crystal clear what it is we are opposed to.

[elkaholic]

I like the less than 1% .0099 is less than 1% but doubles those .005 figures in the number of tags.

 

they've proved that "TAGS" are their only interest. they're not auction tags -- they are raffle -- what a bunch of crap.

 

same results they get tags to sell-- same results - they're better opportunities for the guys with the cash to hunt premium hunts.

 

screw joe hunter with 8 10 bonus -points waiting for premium elk tag - or guys with 20- antelope bonus points that have never been drawn and may not or 25-30 big horn sheep points - I got lots of cash so i'll just buy a tag and go every year in Arizona-- Just like they do in other states.

 

they don't want to fight this same battle over and over so lets make sure its PERMANENT--- TOTAL B.S.

 

G&F needs to see thru this crap and nix this now and forever.

 

so A guy " buys "-wins several ELK raffle TAGS--toss in and antelope --maybe a coues - heck I only spent 10k on raffle chances per species -- I didn't have to drop 150k on one tag like last yr - we are still talking governors tags premium hunts anywhere in the state.

 

 

They say its not about TAGS but still their only suggestion is tags to help fund the education AND THE FIGHT BUT SHRUG OFF ANY ALTERNATIVES THAT Make SENSE AND WOULDN'T BE TRYING TO CHANGE G&F REGULATIONS AND STATE LEGISLATION TO SUIT THEIR NEEDS AND THEIR TAG STEALING AGENDA!!!

 

NO TAGS NO TAGS NO TAGS

[ThomC]

Beware, the ultimate goal is to make the G&F, DNR. Then politicians not biologists will be in control more so than it is already.

[Nefarious Red]

Still lots of misinformation here.

1. CAPAZ will get NO tags and NO money by law. The raffle tags will be administered by a committee similar to the one that handles the HPC funds, and will be made up of members of the Department, Commission, and sportsmen representation.

 

2. The super raffle style tags will be capped at 7, and the general raffle tags would be around 100.

 

3. Legislation is required so the funds go to the program as intended, not spent on tree frogs or bogus trail camera restrictions. This is how we protect our investment, just as HPC funds are protected by legislation.

 

4. A DNR is exactly what this program seeks to prevent. The end goal is public opinion in our favor,so Constitutional right to hunt and fish is possible.