Conserve and Protect Meeting 4/23/2018

[COA]

I have a pretty solid solution but I can't reveal this million dollar idea on a public forum. Maybe if you guys get me an auction tag I will share this info.

[Flatlander]

I have a pretty solid solution but I can't reveal this million dollar idea on a public forum. Maybe if you guys get me an auction tag I will share this info.

I got your tag right here.

[Flatlander]

Please tell me your idea is a calendar with pictures of you in a different camo pattern booty shorts for every month.

[trphyhntr]

I'm telling you what I'm gonna do, back the anti hunting groups if they want to auction off the animals to highest bidder. Where's the respect for the animals

[Flatlander]

I'm telling you what I'm gonna do, back the anti hunting groups if they want to auction off the animals to highest bidder. Where's the respect for the animals

Thats fine.

[Flatlander]

 

Below is a series of emails I exchanged with Commissioner Davis who has been noted by CAPAZ as being an ally. I reached out to all of the commissioners with a similar message to ensure they knew my thoughts on the matter. Commissioner Davis was the only one who responded. I will allow you to draw your own conclusions:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Commissioner Davis,

 

I am writing you to express my concern over an initiative that has begun to arise among the members of the Conserve and Protect AZ organization. Their initiative proposes to allocate special tags for auction and raffle to raise funds for education of the public regarding the contribution makes to conservation. I know that this a group with which you have had association, and I am grateful for any guidance you may have provided during the HSUS defense. While I whole-heartedly agree that such a fund is critical to the perpetuity of hunting, I could not disagree more with the mechanism for raising those funds. My concern has nothing to do with the organization, its members, or its purpose. Rather, I see that the use of tags in such a way clearly contradicts the North American Model. I understand that there are some tags being used in a similar way already through the HPC program, and I see the benefit that those tags have brought for wildlife but my question is; Where does the practice stop? First it was the Auction/Raffle tags, then it was the HPC, now it is CAPAZ. If the intent of tags is to simply raise as much money as possible, then we could certainly sell every tag to the highest bidder. But rather than go the way of Africa and Europe, it is my opinion that the responsibility for protecting our privilege of hunting and fishing lies with the sportsmen. Hunting and Fishing nationally is a $58 billion industry, certainly through other revenue streams we can gather enough money to protect the future of our lifestyle. I believe that there are a number of options available which have not been explored or vetted that do not require us to compromise the model under which our wildlife is managed. Out of respect to your time I will not list or detail some of the ideas that have been discussed among like-minded sportsmen, but should you want to explore that conversation I would be happy to provide some proposals. Thank you for your time and for your dedicated service to AZ's wildlife.

 

Andrew Gillett

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your email. The Commission has received no proposal for auction tags. Thank you, Kurt Davis

Thanks for the response Mr. Commissioner. Have you received a proposal for the use of raffle or other special tags?

 

It is my personal belief, and admittedly not the viewpoint of all sportsmen, that any special tags separates us further from the ideals of the North American Model that have benefitted wildlife in this country for more than a century.

 

Further, it is also mathematically challenging to see how raffle tags would provide anywhere near the amount of funds required for education of the non-hunting public.

 

If for instance 200 tags were to be assigned to this raffle, and they varied in desirability from premium to average, and if those tags more or less aligned with current seasons then I see the numbers shaking out roughly this way:

 

500 tickets per application (a limited number of tickets is part of the arrangement I have heard in meetings), at a cost of $5 per ticket, then that only raises $500k. That is only 25% of the cost that CAPAZ has suggested is required for the outreach.

 

Instead the entire amount could be raised via other methods that do not require legislation. We have emailed a copy of this method to all of the commissioners.

 

I am a concerned sportsmen who is here to help and willing to act, but I must express my total opposition to auction or raffle tags.

 

 

Andrew Gillett

 

 

 

No proposal. However, 500,000 would do substantial assistance for education. Earnest people have lots of ideas. The Commission hasn't done anything in my six years to harm the North American Model and I am sure wouldnt now. The current department Conserve and Protect effort is highly effective and it is my hope will grow more robust over time so that the second most urbanized state in the nation has an educated citizenry about the North American model and the power of how conservation is funded. Thx again, Kurt Davis

 

I think every sportsman in the state would agree that educating the non-hunting community is necessary. We are all on the same page for that.

However, decreasing opportunity for the general public and re-allocating those tags to be more accessible to those with more means is exactly the opposite of the North American Model.

Sportsman need to bear the burden of educating those in our communities, but I feel strongly that tags is not the way to do it.

 

 

Andrew Gillett

 

I have never heard anyone proposing decreasing opportunities, tags,;etc...ever. kurt

 

Continuation of email conversation:

 

Mr. Davis,

 

I have had the opportunity to meet with Mr. Unmacht twice and Mr. Cimarello once. I have also listened to all of Mr. Cimarello's podcasts with Jay Scott and have discussed the proposal with other members of the CAPAZ board.

 

During these discussions Mr. Cimarello has been very clear that tags would need to be re-allocated from the draw to their raffle/auction system. This devalues every application in the draw and also adds a second tax to those who wish to receive tags that would have otherwise been available via the draw process. In this way their proposed system favors those with more financial means by providing them with more opportunities to receive these tags.

 

Below are citations where you can hear Pete state that their intent is to re-allocate tags from the draw to a secondary system.

 

23:05 of Jay Scott's first podcast (linked at the beginning of the other long thread). The question is would the new auction and/or raffle tags come out of the existing tags in the regular draw. The short answer from Pete is YES, the Dept would have to pull the tags from the existing allocation so you are going to lose some tags. He says "so they would obviously taken away from the general draw".

 

Thank you for the time and discourse. I look forward to more conversations about how to protect our wildlife and heritage.

 

Andrew Gillett

 

Thx for info. That wouldnt happen with this commission I am sure. Additional tags is a different issue. This issue is not new for commission. Thx for email. Kurt

 

From the exchange above and based on what Bruce has said about the proposal that Pete made to the commission, essentially arguing that no tags would be diverted to this special raffle/auction effort, I am fairly certain that commissioner Davis and Pete are in lockstep.

 

I am also convinced that Pete is a liar. At the Bass Pro Shops Meeting we asked directly if he was planning to present Amy ideas at the commission meeting this month. He said no presentation had been prepared and they werent on the schedule. He knew right then that he would be presenting this idea. He danced around the particulars of the question.

 

We now know what Petes intentions are. We know the enemy, its time to go to war with anyone who is trying to whore out our tag system.

[COA]

what a joke!im ready to defend the sacred North American conservation model against those who choose to dismantle it.