Conserve and Protect Meeting 4/23/2018

[Delw]

Anyone know what this was about? Seems that AZGFD already has this plan in place or did at one point. Even has the conserve and protect name? https://www.offmadisonave.com/arizona-game-and-fish

interesting.

they are advertising and marking consulants

I didnt click on the pages but it could be petes group or G&F getting advertising help.

[krp]

Videos were made 3 years ago by ad agency. Which proves G&F has resources to outreach and educate, again.

The conserve and protect angle may or may not be coincidence.

Kent

[krp]

Wasn't this new group, was G&F.

 

Kent

[wapitibob]

New and better odds reports are currently part of the draw system rewrite and in one conversation we had it was mentioned that they may be included in a premium portal membership but that's way down the road.

[wapitibob]

Last night I went over some numbers about applications for elk, antelope, deer and sheep from 2010 to 2017 (and 2018 for elk and antelope) that showed quite an increase in applications (varies by species) for those species and I explained that I was using them as a proxy for the number of big game hunters.

 

Pete asked if they included the applications for a bonus point only. I replied that they did. That led to one of the "heated" discussions. I believe Pete's point was that if the numbers included apps for bonus point only, they were skewed.

 

This morning I double checked the G&F reports (BONRPT2 and BONRPT1 available on the azgfd.gov website). I was wrong last night. The numbers DO NOT include applications for a bonus point only.

 

If I had been correct last night, one of the points of contention might have been avoided. I apologize.

 

The numbers presented are accurate and do show quite an increase in applications for actual hunts while permit numbers have stayed relatively steady.

 

Bruce

 

PS. Just as one example for those not there last night. For elk:

 

2010 79,041 apps for 25,895 tags

2018 115,504 apps for 24,901 tags

 

 

2018 total valid Antelope draw applicants, 31,989

2018 total valid Antelope Bonus Point purchases, 13,692

 

2018 total valid Elk draw applicants, 115,436

2018 total valid Elk Bonus Point purchases, 16,520

 

rejects, 662

[AZ8]

 

I just got home. Good meeting with lots of ideas.

I'm still against raffle/auction tags, but I do have to say, I have a different perspective on this process than I did 24hrs ago.

what has changed, as far as your perspective? I thought there was some solid ideas put on the table.

Sorry about the late response. I had to be up a 4am today to make an 8am meeting in Flagstaff.

 

To answer your question, I think a couple guys posted before share my thoughts regarding the board. With the exception of Pete, I feel they are listening to us regarding ideas to move forward. Were they sincere? Time will tell. But Im looking forward to the the next CAPAZ meeting. Although I didn't have much to offer as this was more of a fact finding for me, there were great ideas presented. Flatlander and idgaf presented excellent ideas.

 

I was sitting in front of Bruce. I could feel his frustration when Pete challenged him and then calling him a fool. With that said, I deal with people like Pete in my work almost everyday. They're a dime a dozen. Just accept who they are and move on.

 

The rest of the Board was professional and receptive. Guess we'll see how this plays out.

 

Anyways...I wanted to meet the CWT members there, but my 4am wake up was lingering and I had to get home.

[Nefarious Red]

Well, that sounds good. I can attest to the fatigue, I got to bed at 2 a.m. and had to get up at 3:30. Im not sure of the history, but I'm willing to bet that wasn't the first interaction with Pete and Bruce. Definitely better words could have been chosen.

[Ringer]

Anyone going to the commission meeting on May 4th? That one should tell if the politics are in play. I think the commissioners have a retreat on May 5th as well. If anyone has the timing and location let us know.

[AZkiller]

http://epicoutdoors.libsyn.com/ep-71-mule-deer-recovery-with-ryan-benson-of-big-game-forever

 

Hey guys give this a listen. This is Epic outdoors podcast with what sounds like a very similar model to capaz. Food for thought.

[idgaf]

http://epicoutdoors.libsyn.com/ep-71-mule-deer-recovery-with-ryan-benson-of-big-game-forever

 

Hey guys give this a listen. This is Epic outdoors podcast with what sounds like a very similar model to capaz. Food for thought.

those guys were for the 2012 initiative. They really love special interest tags, that's where they make their money. They do shoot great animals with the great tags.

[elkaholic]

They will NEVER stop trying to get the TAGS TAGS TAGS .

 

They are still pissed their big ideas and slick tricks were stopped last time-- we are idiots-fools

 

they' don't want better ideas-- They WANT TAGS !

 

Like I stated in the other thread --- nothing said is gonna change their agenda!!

[AZkiller]

I am aware of what Jason and Adam like. Ryan gives a good interview and it is worth a listen if you are interested in contributing to the conversation

[knothead]

I'm coming late to this whole thing and trying to catch up so If I say something that has already been discussed, sorry.

 

I thought Pete's whole argument for auction tags offered by a separate entity was the whole idea so they could support G&F? I have read where people want to raise tag fees or create a habitat stamp. If they do that then G&F collects the money and they, by law, are not allowed to get involved in ballot initiatives or politics. Thus, all we did is give them more money to buy trucks or hire biologist, who many of which are against hunting, to study woolly mammoth grasshoppers. G&F must remain neutral. The money raised needs to be done by a separate group not directly affiliated with G&F. Once they raise the money then they have more flexibility in where the money is spent.

 

At this point I am open minded and willing to listen to any and all groups or people that are willing to come up with a legit plan to fund and pay for the battles that are surely coming. Mostly I hear guys say they are against it but they offer no real solutions and who is going to organize it and manage it. It's easy to say I'm against or for something but who is actually going to put the time and effort into it? So far the only group I hear that is willing to put in all the time and effort is Pete's.

 

Something that also needs to be considered is the more of the these auction/raffle tags available the less monetary value they have. The reason why they sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars is because there is only one auction tag and one raffle tag. If we try to action 20 high quality elk/deer/sheep tags the sales price will certainly be much lower. Basic economics of supply. When supply is kept very low but demand is high the price will be high.

[Nefarious Red]

The money going to Game and Fish isn't to engage in a political battle. It's to inform and uneducated population about the contributions hunters provide to conservation, and Game and Fish role. Right now, public opinion isn't in our favor, and we need to reverse that before we can ever hope to pass some kind of Constitutional amendment.

 

And as for the more auction tags bringing down the collective value of them, that point was made at the last CAPAZ meeting, I think by bonecollector777.

[Flatlander]

I'm coming late to this whole thing and trying to catch up so If I say something that has already been discussed, sorry.

 

I thought Pete's whole argument for auction tags offered by a separate entity was the whole idea so they could support G&F? I have read where people want to raise tag fees or create a habitat stamp. If they do that then G&F collects the money and they, by law, are not allowed to get involved in ballot initiatives or politics. Thus, all we did is give them more money to buy trucks or hire biologist, who many of which are against hunting, to study woolly mammoth grasshoppers. G&F must remain neutral. The money raised needs to be done by a separate group not directly affiliated with G&F. Once they raise the money then they have more flexibility in where the money is spent.

 

At this point I am open minded and willing to listen to any and all groups or people that are willing to come up with a legit plan to fund and pay for the battles that are surely coming. Mostly I hear guys say they are against it but they offer no real solutions and who is going to organize it and manage it. It's easy to say I'm against or for something but who is actually going to put the time and effort into it? So far the only group I hear that is willing to put in all the time and effort is Pete's.

 

Something that also needs to be considered is the more of the these auction/raffle tags available the less monetary value they have. The reason why they sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars is because there is only one auction tag and one raffle tag. If we try to action 20 high quality elk/deer/sheep tags the sales price will certainly be much lower. Basic economics of supply. When supply is kept very low but demand is high the price will be high.

You are late and all of this has been discussed in a number of other places, but I will do my best to try and answer your questions.

 

I have read where people want to raise tag fees or create a habitat stamp. If they do that then G&F collects the money and they, by law, are not allowed to get involved in ballot initiatives or politics.

 

The money raised by an auction or raffle tag system could not be used to fund a political fight either. It would be used to enhance the departments existing marketing campaign towards educating the non-hunting public. Any money raised through tag sales / auctions / raffles etc. must be returned to the department. The exact same thing can be accomplished with tags from a license fee increase, or a stamp etc.

 

The money raised needs to be done by a separate group not directly affiliated with G&F. Once they raise the money then they have more flexibility in where the money is spent.

 

Actually the opposite is what we probably need to accomplish. The goal is to raise funds that are earmarked for public education, and cannot e used in the general fund. So these dollars need to have less flexibility for spending rather than more. Much the same way that the HPC funds are allocated directly for habitat and cannot be used for other things. Regardless none of the money earned can be used for political purposes.

 

Mostly I hear guys say they are against it but they offer no real solutions and who is going to organize it and manage it.

 

Several viable options have been offered by community members and organized presentations have been delivered to CAPAZ, the commission and members of the general public who have expressed willingness to help. Pete's response was to thumb his nose, insult and argue with any proposal that didn't align with his personal agenda. Others members of CAPAZ have expressed interest in other options. Some have stated that they want to develop as many revenue streams as possible so accepting some of these ideas doesn't preclude still using tags as a mechanism. However, your comment that no one else is willing to do anything is lame, false and a cop out. If you were engaged and at the meetings and reading the other info that is available, you would know this. So don't let Pete fool you that everyone is apathetic so we have to use his plan or the world will end.

 

Something that also needs to be considered is the more of the these auction/raffle tags available the less monetary value they have. The reason why they sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars is because there is only one auction tag and one raffle tag. If we try to action 20 high quality elk/deer/sheep tags the sales price will certainly be much lower. Basic economics of supply. When supply is kept very low but demand is high the price will be high.

 

This point was discussed and is valid. The dept and commission already have concerns about devaluation of the existing commissioner tags due to collusion among buyers.