New SFW Tag Grab Initiative

[stanley]

Stanley...Please give me a call. Blake and I had an hour long conversation that can’t be summarized in a sentence or two. I would be happy to TRY and answer all /any questions you have....Dave 602-228-1719

 

Thanks much for taking the time to talk on the phone this morning, Dave! I appreciate the information and context.

 

S.

[Ringer]

I just talked to Andy from the sheep society. Good man and he explained the intent and how this is supposed to work. I still look at Utah and how Don Peay has taken over the state. He is a master politician and I don't really think a few tags will satisfy his people. I am afraid this will be the crack in the door to seeing our G&F compromised but that is just my feeling. I would go to the Hunttalk website and search on SFW Utah to get a better flavor of reality. I see a huge SFW Expo in our future. The HSUS issue was the perfect excuse for them to save us.

[GJMauro12]

I could get on board with this is if there was a goal and once that goal was met they're cut off.

 

If a ballot initiative is the main weapon that HSUS has against us.

 

If there is a way for laws to be changed so that a ballot initiative cant be used to change wildlife management.

 

Then why would we need to continue auctioning tags if the goal is met.

 

Give them 1,000 tags over the next five years to run a campaign to change the law and be done with it.

 

Set a timeline and a goal or Im against it from

What Ive heard so far.

 

During the podcast I heard a lot about tags and what tags they want but I didnt hear a lot about what the goals were other than education. I dont think we need public education as much as we need the ballot initiative threat taken away.

[WhtMtnHunter]

If they are truly transparent and spent tons of money saving us from HSUS, then open their current books and show us how much money was involved. I am sure we would all be happy to chip in and pay them back. Then they can be made whole again and go away. Deal?

[TOBY]

I am sure Mossback supports this as well as other giant guide services who will fair well with all the extra trophy tags to guide.

[Flatlander]

I dont think that I need a great deal of detail to know how to feel about this. I am willing to listen to anything but this is all I think we really need to know:

 

1. Does the initiative redirect tags from the AZGFD administrated draw process to an outside organization(s) who will sell them to raise additional funds?

 

If the answer is yes, then my question would be how does AZGFD plan to deal with the loss of said funds? My guess would be that they will raise tag fees to make up the difference.

 

2. What is being done with the funds that AZGFD cannot do themselves right now? Education? Title 17 does not restrict state funds from being used for this purpose, AZGFD can and does use their dollars for educating the general public (ever see those giant billboards with the bighorn sheep on them?). When a political fight comes up, I understand funds are needed to fight that, but that does not occur every year, so what happens in the meantime?

 

3. Are there other means to raise these funds, that do not require using wildlife as the medium for raising dollars. For instance, most political lobbies are suppprted by the industries they serve. So could the outdoor industry provide goods or services which could be used to raise funds? Are we as sportsman willing to pony up and provide financial suppport?

 

I must say that I do not believe I can be convinced that this is a good idea. But I will listen to what is being proposed. I believe that selling more tags or opportunities for tags to those with more financial means feels like a perversion of the North American Model. The presentation of the initiative feels backhanded to me and that may be feeding my uneasiness. But it appears to me that although this would provide funds for the political fights like we had with HSUS it certainly is not the only way to raise money for these fights, and the bill certainly provides an added benefit to those who have money and those who have businesses that serve those who have money. Selfishly, I could probably afford a few more raffle tickets than most, so I may get a few more tags this way, but I agree, using state resources to raise money for political action does not feel ethical to me.

 

Will be interesting to see how this shakes out. And please if anything I have stated is inaccurate please feel free to correct it, just be sure to write in crayon.

[cramerhunts]

It makes me sick that we as a collective group seem to have the need to personally attack people without gathering all of the facts to formulate an educated opinion. I am currently undecided on this new group and the plans they are looking into even though I fervently fought most of the same group in 2012. I do believe there is a valid and urgent need for some type of group or funds to be able to react and fight for our heritage and rights when things come up and our AZGFD's hands are tied. I applaud Jay's efforts in getting the information out there as soon as he heard about it and some other members here who are taking the time to make phone calls and gather information. I will continue to mull everything over and dig up as much information as I can prior to coming up with my own opinion and throwing my support one way or another, I would hope that all true sportsmen would do the same.

 

Not responding to your post Flatlander, I was typing when you posted.

[Flatlander]

It makes me sick that we as a collective group seem to have the need to personally attack people without gathering all of the facts to formulate an educated opinion. I am currently undecided on this new group and the plans they are looking into even though I fervently fought most of the same group in 2012. I do believe there is a valid and urgent need for some type of group or funds to be able to react and fight for our heritage and rights when things come up and our AZGFD's hands are tied. I applaud Jay's efforts in getting the information out there as soon as he heard about it and some other members here who are taking the time to make phone calls and gather information. I will continue to mull everything over and dig up as much information as I can prior to coming up with my own opinion and throwing my support one way or another, I would hope that all true sportsmen would do the same.

 

Not responding to your post Flatlander, I was typing when you posted.

I agree 100% with what you have said. We have to be able to discuss these things without acting like a jackass.

[dusty]

This is 6 years ago.http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=53750568&itype=CMSID

[joe hunter]

Cramerhunts, just look into SFW in Utah.......do a little research.

[twigsnapper]

Cramerhunts, just look into SFW in Utah.......do a little research.

What exactly does that mean? I truly don't know the background on the Utah system and I am hearing that it is bad but I am not hearing any facts. For example, are there less tags available now then there was before Utah started the tags sales? Are there more predators? Have tag cost gone up making it not affordable for everyday hunters? Any honest input is appreciated. Would prefer facts, not feelings....

[Ringer]

Utah was a similar situation. Don Peay and SFW used the wolf introduction as their tool to gain control of hundreds of prime tags. He and his boys were the only ones that could save the day. He is connected at the top levels of the state government and all the way to DC. HSUS here is the same deal. The sky is not falling but we all worked as we could to defeat the signature gathering. Now all of our groups are saying to trust the same people who once attempted to sue us for tags to sell. Is Jerry Wiers daughter's lobbying business part of this new push? He was a snake in the grass for sure. Just because the local groups say we have to do this doesn't mean we have to do it. Find another way to raise funds for a political pac to do that work. If we let them open the door for whoring big game tags we will find ourselves ruing the day we listened to the advocates. I vote NO!

[azelkhunter2]

Can someone please explain why you think Don and SFW have anything to do with this....And please not assumptions and personal opinions but hard facts....Is his name on a board, was he at a meeting, has he made comments about it or ?

[Rescue3]

I'm coming late to this conversation and trying to play catch-up. I've got a couple questions....

 

1. Is everyone saying that Don Peay and SFW (Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife) is the same organization as AZSFWC (Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife Conservation)?

2. What exactly is everyone afraid of? If these are raffle tags then really it is just a chance to get a tag that I wasn't successful at in the draw.

I'll have more as I wade through all the comments and listen to both podcasts.

[The Last Wood]

What no-one has been able to explain is why is this organization special enough to get state resources allocated to them for funding, is this ethical, and what kind of precedent will it set?

 

Will organizations be able to get a cut of public land sales to fund political action?

 

I don't even understand how this can be legal. If AZGF can't be politically active because they are funded through the sale of state resources then how can these same resources be used to fund any private organization?

 

If this is allowed then I worry about what else will be sold to benefit groups that we don't agree with.