The Last Wood Report post Posted March 10, 2018 Coach tell me when capitulation has worked out for conservatives. You say if it's our idea it gives us leverage but I can't think of any time it has. Conservatives have crossed the aisle over and over and it's never reciprocated. We always get the amnesty but not security, we get the tax increases but not the spending cuts. What do you think giving this up will get us. Again McCain is a perfect example of this and you say you are no fan of his but you are playing out of his book. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Last Wood Report post Posted March 11, 2018 A zero tolerance policy of giving up eights can only be expected from us. They know they can't take our liberty all at once so they incrementally take our freedoms. And you say self regulation takes the teeth put of our opposition, I believe it embolden them. They have all the time in the world to chip away one freedom at a time and it will keep working as long as people like you try to appease them. The all or nothing mentality can seem unproductive but we are tired of losing battles. Fool me once shame on you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delw Report post Posted March 11, 2018 The 100% it has to be all or nothing mentality will lose in the long run. Trust me on this. We get to choose whether we are the ones with knowledge and understanding - AND, the ones with the answers. HAHA you want to be trusted but your selling out a particular group of people. those who sell out one group never have a problem selling out another group. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted March 11, 2018 Coach tell me when capitulation has worked out for conservatives. You say if it's our idea it gives us leverage but I can't think of any time it has. Conservatives have crossed the aisle over and over and it's never reciprocated. We always get the amnesty but not security, we get the tax increases but not the spending cuts. What do you think giving this up will get us. Again McCain is a perfect example of this and you say you are no fan of his but you are playing out of his book. Honestly, I can't. I've been entrenched so deeply in the "don't give an inch" camp for so long, it's really hard to separate. Most of the objections I've seen and heard here are arguments I have made in the past. From my perspective, this thing IS going to be big, and it will be a major factor in the next election cycle. The "right", GOP, NRA and gun owners have always been on the defensive. The way I see it, if we're going to be defending 2A, we also have to own that space. We know the facts, laws, every bit of reasoning that goes into defending gun owner rights. If we are on the offensive, doing things that make sense, we have more credibility than the reactive crowd who has zero knowledge. In my opinion, we have way more power than they do when we flex our intellectual muscle and bring forth facts rather than emotion. But we can't step up to the table with an all or nothing proposal. Just to be clear, what I've proposed is an extension of what is already law. 18 year olds are already prohibited by state and federal law from buying a hand gun. Those who are challenging the ideas I've proposed, have never come out in support for lowering the legal age to buy hand guns. The idea that they are somehow defending their life or liberty with a rifle is beyond absurd. What I'm saying is that we either own the gun ownership rights debate and police it internally, or we will have some left-wing dip-**** force it on us under their uninformed ideology. And that's a VERY bad thing for us all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MT_Sourdough Report post Posted March 11, 2018 If I was a gun hating leftist, I'd be filled with optimism after reading this thread. DO YOu GUYS REALLY THINK YOU SOUND INTELLIGENT? Crawling back under my rock now. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bojangles Report post Posted March 11, 2018 At what age does God give a guy the inalienable right of self defense? Or freedom of speech, or worship? The problem is, instead of punishing evil and rewarding good, like we are supposed to to do, we play God, and legislate rights. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dse Report post Posted March 11, 2018 Coach tell me when capitulation has worked out for conservatives. You say if it's our idea it gives us leverage but I can't think of any time it has. Conservatives have crossed the aisle over and over and it's never reciprocated. We always get the amnesty but not security, we get the tax increases but not the spending cuts. What do you think giving this up will get us. Again McCain is a perfect example of this and you say you are no fan of his but you are playing out of his book. Honestly, I can't. I've been entrenched so deeply in the "don't give an inch" camp for so long, it's really hard to separate. Most of the objections I've seen and heard here are arguments I have made in the past. From my perspective, this thing IS going to be big, and it will be a major factor in the next election cycle. The "right", GOP, NRA and gun owners have always been on the defensive. The way I see it, if we're going to be defending 2A, we also have to own that space. We know the facts, laws, every bit of reasoning that goes into defending gun owner rights. If we are on the offensive, doing things that make sense, we have more credibility than the reactive crowd who has zero knowledge. In my opinion, we have way more power than they do when we flex our intellectual muscle and bring forth facts rather than emotion. But we can't step up to the table with an all or nothing proposal. Just to be clear, what I've proposed is an extension of what is already law. 18 year olds are already prohibited by state and federal law from buying a hand gun. Those who are challenging the ideas I've proposed, have never come out in support for lowering the legal age to buy hand guns. The idea that they are somehow defending their life or liberty with a rifle is beyond absurd. What I'm saying is that we either own the gun ownership rights debate and police it internally, or we will have some left-wing dip-**** force it on us under their uninformed ideology. And that's a VERY bad thing for us all. We have always been on the defensive and we always will be! This is a fight, and it always will be! The opposition is not going to give in or give up! They won't quit when the legal age to buy a long gun is 21. They won't quit when they have outlawed ar-15s,or semi autos, or handguns. They will quit when they have won, and taken away our guns completely! Look how far they have pushed in Chicago, and D.C. and they haven't quit and they haven't changed anything for the better. Mexico has outlawed guns it hasn't stopped people from killing people. This has to be all or nothing! If we give an inch anywhere the other side is not going to thank you for being willing to bend! They are going to mark it as a win and find another way to attack! By giving in on any level we will be adding precedence and sharpening the knife they intend to shove in our back! I for one am in favor of lowering the hand gun age back to 18. If they are a legal adult in good legal standing they should have the right to buy a handgun. You say you want to base this on facts and intelligent thought? Ok. Where are the results? Where has gun control worked? We have plenty of examples and no positive results. If you want to keep your guns the only way is to stand and fight and tell the other side they can't have them! If we want to do something about kids getting killed at school taking away one form of weapon won't do it! They will just find another way. Any one of these shooters could have just simply drove a car through a bunch of kids waiting for the bus. We have to go after the real cause of the problem, that's the little chit bags that are causing the problem. With the Florida shooters background he shouldn't have been able to pass a background check. He should have been in jail! He had been let off the hook time and time again until it bit us really hard. If we keep letting them off the hook they are going to keep bitting us! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted March 11, 2018 Texting and driving kills more driving age teens than school shootings. Ironic, how the Lib's are not calling for cell phone bans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted March 11, 2018 Rumors are out, that Trump is expected to announce his support of raising the age limit to 21. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntHarder Report post Posted March 11, 2018 Yeah, expect it to be announced tonight... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntHarder Report post Posted March 11, 2018 Tough issue for sure, no measure will prevent all mass shootings except removing the human being. I wish I had the answer, unfortunately it is much more complicated than what it appears. Pleasing both sides of the argument is just about impossible. Will raising the minimum age help? I am doubtful, as few mass shootings have been carried out by fellows between 18-21. Does the Gov't need to step in and do something? I think yes, exactly what needs to be done is very complex and it will not be accomplished by one single measure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Sparky Report post Posted March 11, 2018 After reading most of this here are a few things to consider: Private business has already raised the age they are going to sell. Wally world has a sign that you now have to be 21 to purchase rifles, muzzleloaders, and ammunition. You have to be 21 to purchase a handgun and handgun ammunition, the 18 is only rifles and shotguns. Peckers is no longer going to sell "assault rifles". Our CCW license is only available to those over 21. I believe the age restrictions are federal laws. If so the state can't infringe on what is provided by the federal government, they can give us more rights and protections but they can't take our federal protections away. Parenting and teaching kids would be the best way to prevent this. Look at all the violent video games where you get to kill people and start over, it probably started with the generation of Mortal Kombat. We just had a murder here where the kids were 15 and 16, they stole the gun. It was a handgun they couldn't have had legally otherwise. The media has a gun ban mentality and this is what they report on. How many DWI crashes kill people and I don't see the media blaming the cars, or the alcohol, remember the 18th and 21st amendment to the constitution and how well that worked out. The governor and the state of FL are not going to be able to stop the problem. The ban is a knee jerk reaction to a problem that the fix is going to have to start in the home. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vinnie B Report post Posted March 12, 2018 It is sad that these mentally ill people keep doing this shoot, but they can push gun control all they want and it is a bullshit arguement. If it were truly about protecting lives they would put safety measures everywhere. How many accidents are caused by cell phone use? I think about 25%, It wouldn't be too hard to enable our phones GPS so if it were moving faster than 5mph the phone temporally can't be used. That will never happen because theyll say what about the person not driving? Who cares, safety is safety you lose your privileges because of the few that screw it up for everyone. What about DUI related death? 10,000 plus per year, Every vehicle has to have a breathalyzer thingy. Wait that's not fair I dont drink a drive nor even drink, suck it up buttercup it's for safety so you lose... How many violent crimes are committed by illegals every year? 1 is too many!! that could all be prevented if they werent here illegally.. None of these things will EVER happen because it would inconvenience the masses and when it comes down to it they don't really care about saving lives just controlling guns 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stanley Report post Posted March 12, 2018 Looks like nothing is going to happen at the Federal level anytime soon. Trump is backing-off his initial call for minimum age increase, and is instead going to do some research. No surprise there.... It does state however, that still pushing to allow LE to confiscate guns "...from individuals who pose a risk to themselves or others, and temporarily prevent them from buying firearms." No due process mentioned. Scary.... S. www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/11/white-house-backs-off-call-to-raise-minimum-age-to-buy-long-guns.html 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZkiller Report post Posted March 12, 2018 "Shall not be infringed" Bingo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
