Vinnie B Report post Posted March 10, 2018 So you can vote and die for your country but not own a firearm? In every other instance this would be cried upon as discrimination... If you are not mentally capable of owning a gun until 21 you definitely should not be driving a car until then either.. How many kids are killed in cars each year? This is from the CDC website Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for U.S. teens.1 Fortunately, teen motor vehicle crashes are preventable, and proven strategies can improve the safety of young drivers on the road. How big is the problem?In 2015, 2,333 teens in the United States ages 16–19 were killed and 235,845 were treated in emergency departments for injuries suffered in motor vehicle crashes.1 That means that six teens ages 16–19 died every day from motor vehicle injuries. In 2013, young people ages 15-19 represented only 7% of the U.S. population. However, they accounted for 11% ($10 billion) of the total costs of motor vehicle injuries.1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeardownAZ Report post Posted March 10, 2018 If you aren’t competent enough to own a firearm at 18 then you aren’t competent enough to vote, get married, serve in the military and other things. If we as a society have de evolved to the point that our young people aren’t mature enough to handle these responsibilities, then we have to look at the whole picture and not just firearms because a few bad apples lost there minds. But this isn’t about any of that. This will end up being nothing more then a start to a erosion of our rights and more power and control to the government. Some of the responses on here are very discouraging. Some are very encouraging. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted March 10, 2018 Gun crime is lower now than it was in the 90s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctafoya Report post Posted March 10, 2018 This is a tough one. I see both sides of the argument. My wife and I were talking about this long before all this crap happened. I am not apposed to limiting sales to 21 and over. I am also opposed to stomping the rights of responsible young firearms owners as well. I have four sons. 15, 16, 20, and 22. The oldest bought his AR when he turned 18. He is the pillar of responsibility. He put himself through the first two years of collage on his own dime. He worked at the same place since 16 years old until he moved away to go to school last summer. He went to Europe for a summer on his own dime. The two younger ones are just like him. They have all hunted and been around firearms most of their lives. They all understand every action, intentional or not, has consequences. Now that brings me to my 20 year old. He has a piss poor attitude, the world owes him something, and has a horrible temper. He has also hunted and been around firearms his entire life. When he turned 18 he wanted to buy an FN SCAR. I was able to keep him preoccupied with why he shouldn't buy one until he ended up getting side tracked and blew the money on a tattoo. While I don't think he would ever intentionally do anything, he doesn't have the mindset to own a rifle like that, or any firearm for that matter. He doesn't think about consequences. he doesn't think about anything past Friday night. Here is where it gets muddy. He is in the Navy, and is deploying next month. How can I make a case for him not to own a firearm until he is mature enough when he is serving our country. That age range is a mess. Your technically and adult, but your not. You can buy a rifle, but not a hand gun. You can vote, even if you have no idea about the issues you are voting on. You can buy tobacco, but not alcohol. You have to pay taxes, but you cant gamble. You cant rent a car, but you can die fighting for your country that has placed an absurd set of rules for your age range. I have always wondered what info they are collecting during a background check, and how they are able to get it so fast. Should that check take longer? I don't know, but it seems like the last few shooters slipped through the cracks from agencies not doing their job and reporting things that could have prevented these clowns from buying a firearm. Then that leads us further down the rabbit hole. If turned away they could just buy from someone on back page. Who's responsibility does that fall under to make sure these people aren't getting their hands on firearms from private sales? While I 100% agree that law abiding citizens should not bear the burden of a few lunatics, what can we do? I agree that if we budge an inch the left will come after us with everything they have. It wont be too long before they go after my assault 4 wheel drive. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted March 10, 2018 ctafoya - really great response. This is a strange and difficult topic. There's plenty of young men in that age group that are incredibly responsible - plenty of others who quite frankly aren't very developed yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted March 10, 2018 Tell ya what, I have a policy that at work, there are three things I won't discuss. Religion, gun control and abortion. Going forward I am going to extend that policy to CWT out of respect for those here with differing opinions. I stand behind what I've posted here, and have always stood for gun rights for those who are capable to handle the responsibility. Good luck to you all on your hunts, best wishes to all of you and your families. And while I'm at it, God bless. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trapdoor Report post Posted March 10, 2018 Qualifiers imposed by a government upon endowed rights by a Creator steals that grant from the source and assumes the gift to be by that government - which will further determine the restrictions it (government) will continue to impose. We do not receive our rights from our government, yet our government encumbers those very rights. Therefore it can be argued that rights no longer exist as rights but rather as privileges, as the current government mutation intends. Once government has established that it can place restrictions on "rights", a la privileges, further restrictions will result, as evidenced throughout our history. Now that we have allowed rights to become privileges through the restrictions placed on one (more than one in reality) amendment (our guarantee that our government cannot usurp the People) to our Constitution, that being our very most sacred right as it is the means of protecting our lives and our rights, all other rights are subject to the same degradation. We must assume, nay, we know, that government will further restrict and abolish our rights. The question is not whether any one person should be allowed to purchase a long gun, or other arm. The question is how can we as the People allow a government to eliminate, through restriction, a right that our Constitution explicitly substantiated to prevent said elimination from being effected. Be that as it may, by establishing certain restrictions such as age limits on one right, it must be assumed that those same restrictions (and more restrictive) will be placed on all other rights. By establishing that a certain group of people (where have we seen this before?) have encumbrances over their endowment for one right, they are subject to encumbrances on all other rights. This "group" of people will one day no longer have the protections memorialized under the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth Amendments (individually cited, not collectively, so as to emphasize the importance of each and every one). Further, by dissolving a right of one group necessitates that the prohibition will eventually precipitate to all. While our society has problems that must be dealt with, the vacation of Our rights is not the solution. We must all be faithful that these rights are Ours; all of ours. I'm not going to preach that I have the solution - I don't. I know without doubt that further erosion of the rights of all is not the solution because the rights of all are the rights of one. That one is you. That one is me. A right stolen from you is a right stolen from me. We are on the edge of a precipice that we must back away from. The arguments being espoused are scary. People are reacting based only on ill-conceived emotion without an honest understanding of all of the consequences. Those consequences are so far reaching. On the surface they appear simple and finite. But they are not. I'd argue that some of those far reaching consequences are just as sinister as planned, but many proclaiming them are not capable of or not interested in seeing the depth of what will eventually manifest. Every time a law is passed that erodes our freedom, there is accompanying celebration. While I am not a Star Wars junkie, one line from one of the movies was branded into my mind the first time I saw the movie: "So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause." While I am not saying that applause is here, necessarily, it is definitely out there in our society. That society wants to bury the very foundation of who we are in the hopes that they can sleep better tonight, not understanding what tomorrow brings. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted March 10, 2018 Excellent post, Trapdoor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Last Wood Report post Posted March 10, 2018 Coach, saying that if we come up with the idea of a certain type of gun control will give us leverage down the road is ridiculous. Did giving amnesty to 7 million illegals in the 80s give us leverage as they still cross our borders today? That is an idea liberals came up with to trick republicans. They will call you a hero for a day then be back to use you again. They may even call you "the maverick" look at John McCain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted March 10, 2018 Tell ya what, I have a policy that at work, there are three things I won't discuss. Religion, gun control and abortion. Going forward I am going to extend that policy to CWT out of respect for those here with differing opinions. I stand behind what I've posted here, and have always stood for gun rights for those who are capable to handle the responsibility. Good luck to you all on your hunts, best wishes to all of you and your families. And while I'm at it, God bless. youre pro abortion too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted March 10, 2018 No fan of McCain here. Hasn't it already been the law that you can't buy a pistol in AZ until you are 21? I hope I've made it clear enough that extending that existing law to long arms could come with previsions that require at least the basic capabilities, and parental consent? Honestly, I'm a little baffled by the direction this debate has gone. Anyone who has studied gun laws in any way knows that long guns are not the chosen ones for either crime or defense. The existing laws already prevent handgun purchases to those 21 or less, unless you buy it in a parking lot. It's absolutely legal for anyone to buy any gun, regardless of age, outside of the background checks, if done person-to-person. What you say is ridiculous, I think is smart - and powerful. Being the ones who self-regulate in an intelligent way, takes the teeth and nails out of the opposition. What is lost by saying an 18 year old can't buy a rifle without some sort of parental consent? Who loses out on that? The gun control debate will be won by the cooler heads. The 100% it has to be all or nothing mentality will lose in the long run. Trust me on this. We get to choose whether we are the ones with knowledge and understanding - AND, the ones with the answers. Or, we could just be a bunch of unyielding gun nuts who fail to see that there are actually two sides to this coin. That's a 50/50 proposition at best. Personally, I don't take those odds given how the media and schools and literally everything is against us. We either shift the perspective, or we lose - all of us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted March 10, 2018 trphyntr, that's an absolute low, even for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted March 10, 2018 trphyntr, that's an absolute low, even for you. asking a question about something you brought up is low of me? ok. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted March 10, 2018 Your words, not mine. Keep digging. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted March 10, 2018 Political propaganda at it's finest. "Divide & rule!" If any of you feel that school shootings justify ANY changes to existing or addition of new gun laws than you are fools to the highest degree. This "Protect our children!" rant is every bit the equivalent false narrative of the BLM movement. It's misconstrued over exaggerated BS. The following events are all significantly more likely to kill your kids than a school shooting: - Car accident (more than 100x more likely) - Run over by a train - Struck by lightning - Killed in a flood - DRUG ABUSE!!! If it's really all about the children, than we have a whole crap load of new laws that we need. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
