It's about time!

[daryl_s]

All posts so far seem to have good valid points. I agree that no matter what laws we have people will find ways to skirt around them, find loopholes or they will just plain ignore them....they do that now don't they??? The economy has slowed down somewhat and I think that will be the biggest factor in where people go.

 

I was living in Argentina in 2001(yes legally ) when they had a huge economic crisis. The value of the Argentine peso was 1 to 1 with the US dollar before their economy crashed. I watched it fall virtually overnight to 3 to 1 and sometimes as bad as 4 to 1. It fluctuated on a daily basis. In Argentina there were a ton of Peruvians living there illegally and they were nannies, house cleaners, landscapers etc and it worked out very good for them because they converted their Argentine pesos to US dollars and then into "soles," the Peruvian currency, and it worked out very favorably for them. They would then send most of it back to Peru, just like a lot of illegals here do. After their economy crashed and the value of the Argentine peso fell it was no longer worth it to them to work in Argentina. Almost all of them went back to Peru because they no longer had a reason to be there.

 

They will follow the jobs and if there aren't any then there won't be any reason to stay. The economy is already slowing down and I think that is the main reason for people either going back or moving somewhere else.

[KidBowHunter]

it's about time is right!

[jamaro]

another one... this one says 49%

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10774146/

 

We love cheap unattached labor...

 

J-

 

Both articles you point out are referencing "Day Laborers" which only make up a small percentage of the total illegal population. I ahve not found anything to support those numbers for Illegal workers as a whole group. It would be interesting though to see a report that showed what % of illegals work as day laborers.

 

This is just another prime example of the media using 1 term " day laborer" and someone equating it completely with "Illegal Immigrant" group which is not the case.

Sheeple see something like this and get all fired up and go off on the wrong mission based on distorted or half truths.

 

The media is not impartial and they try to evoke reactions (ratings) with every story they do. Slant it for the most reaction and report it with a twist, whatever they need to do to get the ratings.

 

We all have to read what is written as fact in the media and then challenge the info. Otherwise we are all just Sheeple.

 

Merry Christmas to all

 

 

From paragraph 5

 

Forty-nine percent of day labor employers are homeowners, according to 2,660 laborers interviewed for the study. Contractors were second, at 43 percent. The study also found that three quarters of day laborers were illegal immigrants and most were from Latin America.

 

J-

[az4life]

Thanks for making my point. 49 percent of those that hire the day laborers were private citizens. These laborers make up the smallest percentage of the illegal population in the US. And yeah, they interview 2660 laborers so what would you do if you were asked who you were working for? Would you cut off your own gravy train? Then it is all in how the question was phrased and interpreted. Did you know that over 11% of everyone born in Mexico is living illegally in the US right now! Mexico is the problem They need to fix their own mess instead of encouraging everyone to jump the border.

I've seen a lot of survey questions that leave anyone wondering how to answer.

 

All these points and I could toss in a few more, but I'll leave it for now. Illegal immigration has been ignored too darn long and needs to be fixed, Muey Pronto!

Legal Immigration could be looked at for improvements but not until the other problem is taken care of.

 

People quote the $7.00 big macs as the reason to look the other way, but that's horse-spit. The market will not bear that price or Mcd's would be charging it now. I've seen big macs for 5 bucks at an airport and sports venue. Is that cause there were no illegals working there? Just another example of Free economy, supply and demand charging what the market will bear.

I am sure will get by fine. Probably be better off with all the time we save not having to press 1 for english and 2 for spanish.

 

From paragraph 5

 

Forty-nine percent of day labor employers are homeowners, according to 2,660 laborers interviewed for the study.

Contractors were second, at 43 percent. The study also found that three quarters of day laborers were illegal immigrants and most were from Latin America.

 

J-

[daryl_s]

Did you know that over 11% of everyone born in Mexico is living illegally in the US right now!

 

 

 

Where did you get this number from???? You have mentioned it a few times but are yet to cite the source. You were quick to bash Jamaro for doing the same thing.

[az4life]

As requested, here is some info from a previous post . I'll Amend my statement to 10% figure instead of 11% even though the current estimates show an increase of 1 million per year. Whats another million or so when we are talking this many!

I appreciate that you challenged me to produce my sources. Don't take the media's word for it, or mine for that matter.

 

-------------------------------

Post from 4/11/2006

I do not have a problem with LEGAL immigrants, nor are you likely to find many US citizens who do. The

fact is there are way to many illegals in the US and they are the cause of the problems.

 

Everyone has heard the government estimate of 12 million illegal aliens here right now. Many people believe that number is actually as high as 20 million, but lets stay with the 12 million estimate and do some quick math....

 

These Government statistics are from 7-2006. Yes it said 7-2006.

CIA - World Population

 

298,000,000 US population

107,000,000 Mexico population

12,000,000 is the estimated number of illegal aliens are currently in the US

The estimate of OTM (Other Than Mexican) illegals in the US is less than 1 million.

11,000,000 Mexican national citizens are illegally in the US.

 

Based on the above government statistics;

An estimated 4% of the people in the United States are here illegally.

In simple terms, Nearly 1 in 20 people are illegally in the US.

 

10.2% of the Mexican population is living Illegally in the US right now.

1 of every 10 people born in Mexico is Living Illegally in the US.

Quite shocking isn't it!

This is more evidence that LEGAL immigration is not the problem.

 

I could support a guest worker program, or an increase in the legal visas granted to those wishing to come to the US, But only if we enforce our current laws.

Our country was built on the rule of law. Allowing illegal immigrants to mandate new laws just because there are millions of them is just wrong, on so many levels.

If we cannot enforce current laws, why would anyone think we can enforce new ones.

 

Do not take my word for it. Google it and find your own proof. Mine was from several US Gov't websites including the CIA world info site shown above.

[daryl_s]

Okay. Thank you for cititng your sources.

 

I did some research and came up with these numbers:

 

Population of Mexico-103,263,388 in 2005(according to Wikipedia)

 

In 2004 it was estimated that there were 10.3 million illegal immigrants living in the US. From 2000-2004 it was estimated that there was a net total of 450,000 new illegal immigrants arriving to the US each year. So we can assume 10.75 million illegal immigrants living in the US in 2005.

 

The percentage of illegal immigrants by region and country(according to my sources) lists 57% of illegal immigrants being from Mexico which if we do the math 57% of 10,750,000 is 6,127,500.

 

There is a huge difference between 57% and 90%. Which one do you believe???? I guess which ever one you want to....or makes your argument sound better.

 

I think this just further proves that numbers are just that, numbers. The obvious is that there are a lot of illegals living in this country. We also happen to live close to Mexico and so that is what we mostly see. Ever been to Miami????? You pretty much have to be able to speak spanish there and if you speak with a Mexican accent they're going to look at you funny.

 

 

Here are my sources:

 

 

Bean, Frank D. and Gillian Stevens. 2003. America's Newcomers and the Dynamics of Diversity, Russell Sage: New York.

 

Massey, Douglas S., Jorge Durand, and Nolan J. Malone. 2002. Beyond Smoke and Mirrors: Mexican Migration in an Era of Economic Integration. Russell Sage: New York.

 

Passel, Jeffrey S. 2005. "Unauthorized Migrants: Numbers and Characteristics." Background Briefing Prepared for Task Force on Immigration and America's Future. Pew Hispanic Center. Available online.

 

Passel, Jeffrey S., Jennifer Van Hook, and Frank D. Bean. 2004 . "Estimates of Legal and Unauthorized Foreign Born Population for the United States and Selected States, Based on Census 2000." Sabre Systems, Inc. Available online.

 

Van Hook, Jennifer, Weiwei Zhang, Frank D. Bean, and Jeffrey S. Passel. 2004. "Foreign-born Emigration: New Approaches and Estimates Based on Matched CPS Files," Demography (forthcoming).

[TAM]

As was already pointed out the numbers lie. The interperations just depend on what side of the line you're on. What ever the numbers are, the system is broke and needs to be fixed. If you need numbers to figure that one out you've got other problems to worry about.

 

I've seen reports that seem to show how much money illegals are costing the economy, and I've seen reports that show how much money they are adding to the economy by doing work that the citizens don't want to do. I'm not sure if there is a correct answer, but I seem to believe there are strong arguements on both sides of the issue. That's why this is such a HUGE problem!!!! There is no simple way to fix it, and no matter what the government does to make the problem right it will more than likley hurt someone.

 

I just get real tired of many folks saying things like "send 'em all back"! It's not that simple! Because the problem has been ignored for so long the issue is not as black and white as many make it out to be.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Putting the burden on the employeers to police the problem is not a good solution!!!

[COUESAZ]

I wonder how many of them still send back the money they make here. In the past i have talked to some that other contractors had on the job site and asked them about the wife and kids they have back in mexico. Most of them say they send very little if any money back to the family they left behind because they are trying to pay for the new family they started over here with the new wife and kids. I know i will probably be blown out of the water by most of you on this, But it has come from the mouths of many many men that are here now living in our country from mexico.

[daryl_s]

As was already pointed out the numbers lie. The interperations just depend on what side of the line you're on. What ever the numbers are, the system is broke and needs to be fixed. If you need numbers to figure that one out you've got other problems to worry about.

 

I've seen reports that seem to show how much money illegals are costing the economy, and I've seen reports that show how much money they are adding to the economy by doing work that the citizens don't want to do. I'm not sure if there is a correct answer, but I seem to believe there are strong arguements on both sides of the issue. That's why this is such a HUGE problem!!!! There is no simple way to fix it, and no matter what the government does to make the problem right it will more than likley hurt someone.

 

I just get real tired of many folks saying things like "send 'em all back"! It's not that simple! Because the problem has been ignored for so long the issue is not as black and white as many make it out to be.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Putting the burden on the employeers to police the problem is not a good solution!!!

 

I couldn't have said it any better(already tried ).

[az4life]

Great research. I agree that numbers can be filtered or slanted about any way the "seller" wants them to be.

As we all know the Media does.

 

Millions and Millions and Millions (think about that) of illegals being here don't make it right and we need to put a stop to the invasion.

The best way is often a matter of opinion, but I look at what a lot of others have figured out.

With No Job - They have No reason to be here.

The line needs to be drawn and we have to start moving the needle in the other direction.

 

The problem is not small, it's gotten Huge, Like a Heard of elephants. And like the man asked, How do you eat an elephant? One Bite At A Time.

 

I'll Welcome Legal Immigrants as long as I draw breath in the USA. It's the illegals that chap my hide.

[TAM]

AZlifer, I would have no problem if the government wanted to hold the employers accountable IF the government was already doing everything they could do to police the problem themselves! The problem we have here is the government looking the other way and doing very little to enforce current laws and secure the borders.

 

The way I see this whole issue is the government does not want to get its own resources involved so they are turning the employeers into the police force. Whats wrong with the Phoenix Police force that they can't arrest a few thousand of the illegals at a time when they are marching down town? Why can't the Mesa Police force simply go down to Broadway and Mesa Drive in the morning and pick up a couple hundred day laborers at a time. Why cant the Fed's make a greater effort to secure our borders. Why can't Washington put some pressure on Mexico to help resolve the problem or face some sort of U.S. sanctions against them? The federal, state, and local government agencies are all turning there backs on the problem and simply throwing back in the laps of the public employers making them the scape goat!

 

It's a bass ackwards way of dealing with the problem if you ask me.

[jetpilotdh]

nobody likes illegal immigration. nobody. but i for one disagree with any type of government mandate that passes costs along to another entity. why increase a business's costs by mandating compliance with something the federal government should already be doing? last time i looked at my paycheck i already saw about 30% disappear. doesn't some of that already pay to secure the border? yet now I have to pay an additional tax in the form of a $7 big mac or whatever it turns out to be, because the feds won't do what they are required by the constitution to do? business owners shouldn't have to worry about who they are hiring, because the federal government is responsible to secure the border and thereby ensure a clean labor pool. this isn't about cheating and lowering costs by paying substandard wages, whether businesses do or not is debatable at best, it's about a governmental agency that refuses do it's job, yet continues to demand taxes as if they do. then they pass on an additional, hidden tax to have someone else do what they were supposed to be doing all along. i don't like it. and $5 big macs sell at sports venues only because there's not free market competition at the sports venue and they don't let you bring food in from where there is.

 

stop illegal immigration. just do it the way it's supposed to be done, the way most countries, including mexico do it, not by mandating businesses. it's really quite easy, as i think TAM put it. use the tax dollars we are already required to pay to build a border fence (imported from china) and whatever else needs to be done, hire more agents, change legal immigration laws, build a virtual fence, invest in technology to help, quit securing the borders of south korea and germany and iraq and wherever else we are and use the most powerful military in the history of this earth to secure our own borders.

[TAM]

AMEN JET!!! Thats what I'm talking about!!! Especially about building a fence imported from China

[ghost hunter]

Jet is right. This is America da*& it! If we WANTED to shut off the border, we could do it. But the politicians don't want to because they are afraid of the voters. Most people have forgotten the 8-10-12 million illegals who were given 'amnesty' back in the mid 80's. Of course they got the right vote and now their kids (mid-late 20's) can also vote. You can bet they are VERY sympathetic to the issue going on now and want the same for all the illegals here now.

 

Everyone keeps asking, "Why don't they see there is a problem? Why can't they fix it?" Answer is, "They can see the problem, they have just chosen not to fix it!" Only thing you are getting now is just 'lip service' to keep people quiet while they ACT like they are doing something about it. What worries me is the politicians trying to apply the old rule of, "don't worry, they (the people) only have the attention span of a gnat."

 

Off the rant...