It's about time!

[az4life]

I saw this on a Rueters story today.

Moving back home

 

This story is interesting in several ways,

 

It proves that the way to cut off the illegal immigration problem is to target the employers and jobs.

It shows that some forethought is given to where an illegal gets the best deal.

Some illegals would rather keep moving to a place where they don't get "hassled" for being illegal.

Also shows that illegals in the US respect laws in their own country but disregard those in the US.

Applying for legal papers to return to mexico and take their belongings is important for them to go through the legal process.

Also shows our slowing economy is giving people cause to look at their old situations as not soo bad.

 

AZ is doing the right thing with the new law. Hope it gets enforced! 3 cheers for scottsdale PD as well. Asking everyone to prove citizenship when thye are arrested and holding all those that cannot for Immigration and Customs Deporting.

 

I am in favor of Legal immigration and anyone who is passed through the process is, and should be, welcome here.

[TAM]

Putting the burden of proof of citizenship upon business owners is just a cop out!!! The Federal Government should be the ones enforcing the laws and boarders, not the business owners!!!

 

Why don't we take the new law a step further and make it every Americans responsibility, not only should we not give them jobs, but make it illegal to rent them a house, or sell them a car, or serve them dinner in a restaraunt, or sell them groceries???? Why are we putting it solely on the shoulders of the employeers and not get everyone involved??

 

Arizona is going about this backwards. It should have been resolved years ago before it snow balled to what it is today.

 

Here's an idea??? Let the Police do there job and let the business owners do theirs!!! Don't let the government throw this issue back in our lap because they lack the spine to deal with it directly!!!

 

If Mr. Nappy had any clue how to govern for the people he/she would be camped out on the White House lawn screaming and yelling to get Washingtons attention!!! Instead he/she signs this garbage piece of legislation to wash his/her hands clean of the issue.

 

All of this asside, the new law is so full of holes and gray areas that it will no doubt be close to unenforceable in court. Employers are running scared right now, but after a few citations get thrown out because they can't prove the "knowingly" part, then we'll be right back where we started.

 

Don't take this post the wrong way. I agree 100% that there is a BIG problem and the system needs to be fixed!!! I just completly disagree that this "new law" is a good way to fix the problem.

[jamaro]

There was a recent study that showed that 65% of illegals are hired by individuals... not businesses... Can they hold these people accountable?

 

Jason

[az4life]

The move may not be ideal and yes, it should be up to everyone to not hire illegals but if there must be a line drawn and this one obviously is having an effect.

I don't believe posts that say "a recent study says" unless the source is quoted. Do your homework, don't just spout the party line like lemmings!

Again, I will say there are a lot of bogus stories on the net, so it is up to each of us to verify sources before quoting them.

[jamaro]

The move may not be ideal and yes, it should be up to everyone to not hire illegals but if there must be a line drawn and this one obviously is having an effect.

I don't believe posts that say "a recent study says" unless the source is quoted. Do your homework, don't just spout the party line like lemmings!

Again, I will say there are a lot of bogus stories on the net, so it is up to each of us to verify sources before quoting them.

 

real nice...

Abel Valenzuela Jr., "Day labourers as entrepreneurs? Mexican immigrants in Los Angeles Area," Journal of Ethnic and Migration Studies, April 1, 2001.

 

 

Look it up... and the article says it is closer to 84%

 

 

and why do you always have to be so combative... and honestly... I could careless about parties....

 

Merry Christmas... and God Bless Everyone... Including Illegals..

 

 

j-

[jamaro]

another one... this one says 49%

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10774146/

 

We love cheap unattached labor...

 

J-

[az4life]

another one... this one says 49%

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10774146/

 

We love cheap unattached labor...

 

J-

 

Both articles you point out are referencing "Day Laborers" which only make up a small percentage of the total illegal population. I ahve not found anything to support those numbers for Illegal workers as a whole group. It would be interesting though to see a report that showed what % of illegals work as day laborers.

 

This is just another prime example of the media using 1 term " day laborer" and someone equating it completely with "Illegal Immigrant" group which is not the case.

Sheeple see something like this and get all fired up and go off on the wrong mission based on distorted or half truths.

 

The media is not impartial and they try to evoke reactions (ratings) with every story they do. Slant it for the most reaction and report it with a twist, whatever they need to do to get the ratings.

 

We all have to read what is written as fact in the media and then challenge the info. Otherwise we are all just Sheeple.

 

Merry Christmas to all

[daryl_s]

numbers and percentages are both worthless....they can easily be manipulated to portray what ever it is you want to portray. The problem is out there all you have to do is drive down the road and look out your car window and it's obvious....I don't need some media outlet to try and tell me that there is a problem or how big it is. I don't think there's a clear cut easy solution either IMO.

[TAM]

"...and this one obviously is having an effect."

 

Don't you think it's a little pre matature to be claiming victory all ready? It's not even January 1st, the law doesn't even go into effect for another week. I think it would be safe to say it's getting pretty good attention or a great deal of public reaction, but it will be some time before anyone can measure the "effect" of this legislation be it good or bad.

 

We'll see when the lawsuits start flying how the terms "knowingly" and "intentionally" stand up in court. Not to mention the manditory use of a voluntary government program, I still can't figure that one out????

 

The more I see the details of this one I really beileve it was Nappy's way of skirting the issue! She knew she didn't have any voice or power in Washington, so she did the next best thing, she signed legislation that made her look pro active when in reality there will be no legal muscle to dish out the punishment.

[az4life]

TAM

You've got some good points there, (besides the ones you're holding in the picture).

 

You guys are a lot closer to the AZ frontier on illegal immigration than I am but it's all over the country. Frankly I was floored when I saw this bill several months ago and that Mr Napoloreno had supported of it.

Again, if the laws we had were enforced, on employment and immigration, we would not need another law, but sometimes the libs need ot be hit in the face with a 2x4 to see the will of the people.

If there is any truth to the Rueters story, it seems some illegals are getting a message that things are about to start changing. Any way you look at it, That Cannot be a bad thing for AZ.

We'll all have to wait and see!

[TAM]

The scary part about this legislation is that it was written and introduced by a group of conservitives. I think Nappy felt pressured into signing it because she didn't have any better ideas of her own and Washington wasn't/isn't about to pick up any of the slack. Since there were no other real alternatives she didn't want to stand by and do nothing.

 

What happens to Arizona's economy when there are no more jobs for the illegals here? Our unemployment is usually around 3.5 to 4.5 percent which is very low and pretty much means that anyone that wants a job already has a job. If you get rid of the illegals there will not be enough legal workers to fill those empty jobs.

 

This new law may have been a good solution 20 years ago before the problem was out of control, but like it or not now the only realistic means to solve the problem is some sort of guest worker program. We've just become to reliant upon Hispanic Labor.

[dustyb0]

If a legal worker is paid a livable wage there will not be a problem.There will be less profit for employers and if they keep breaking the law they will lose period.Do the CRIME pay the fine.

[jetpilotdh]

less profit for employers means less jobs for workers. simple as that. added costs to employers get passed on as increased costs to consumers. and i don't mean that illegals get paid less than legals. sometimes they do, sometimes they don't... it all depends on what they do. there are other costs with complying with this law that employers face (a la oxley-sorbanes) .... those costs get passed on too. people who think this law is going to solve the problem have no idea what it's like to run a business. they should try it. illegals are the scapegoat in a stalling economy. nobody was concerned or complaining when they were having their "investment" homes built for "reasonable" prices two years ago. hope you all enjoy your $7 big macs, while you buy all your chinese crap from walmart cos employers don't pay you a liveable wage. free markets always demand lowering costs, employers do it. consumers do it. this problem is over-complicated for this political cool aid you all are drinking.

[curmudgen]

Employers who employ illegals often pay them substandard wages and provide none of the benefits American workers are used to. If that's how they get their profits, it's at the expense of law abiding employers and our entry level workers who are being squeezed out. And don't think they only do the jobs our citizens won't do, as many of them take the well paying construction jobs our workers, especially our youth, would love to have. We are allowing an underclass to form within our country that is willing to live in substandard housing, 10 to a room, who have no intention of assimilating by learning our language or pledging their allegience to our flag or otherwise becoming what we would consider to be good citizens. By refusing to stop the inflow, and I would welcome legal immigrants who pass the test to become citizens and swear their allegience to the United States of America, we are creating a situation like they have in France where the immigrant Muslim youth are periodically rioting because they now don't like living in the neighborhoods they created by entering, although legally, and being willing, at least for awhile, to live in slums, but wih no intention of becoming French. We need to gain control of our borders. After that, a guest worker program would make sense, especially for jobs where there is evidence that domestic workers are not available. In the meantime, if this law and others like it cause illegals to leave and go home or go elsewhere, that's good for Arizona. If the Feds won't do their job, then under our Federal Republic the states should be able to protect themselves from this invasion. Requiring workers to show they are cizens and punishing employers who fail to verify is a good first step. And quit trying to blame Gov. Napolitano. Our conservative Republican legislature passed this law over the objections of the liberal Democrats in the legislature. Jack

[JohnFriddle]

The reason illegals are leaving or planning to leave is the economic downturn we are seeing... This new law does (and rightfully so), I'm sure have many wondering, employees and employers alike... But, The economy is the biggie, there will always be a need for some illegal workers, someone to do work others won't do, and there are those kind of jobs out there... But, like everything else, there is such a thing as too much... Employers are to blame for much of the problem, Hiring illegals is against the law!!!! If you have to break the law to make it work for you, you don't deserve to make it... All this B.S. about "The consumer demands lower prices... Boo Hoo.." WORK HARDER like people have been doing for centuries, don't cheat... I think this new law is a good idea, but, I think it's gonna be overturned, or ruled unconstitutional or something I'm sure... Anyway, we don't enforce most of the laws that deal with illegals anyway, so why would this one be any different... I think a guest worker program could work, but I think there would have to be a path to citizenship for it to be utilized by workers, otherwise why would they use it, their illegal now and nothing is happening to them, so why put themselves on the radar... Citizenship of a country that is constantly trying to get rid of them might not look that attractive anyway...