Coues hunter or Coues Sniper?

[AZAV8ER]

Here is a discussion of note. I think that someone on this site posted this before. It is a good read for those that shoot animals. If you can get thru all of it then you are serious about shooting. A good test as to how much you are able to do the work, put in the time, to take the ethical shot. https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Effective+Game+Killing.html

 

Whew, a lot there, will have to come back and finish another time.

[AZAV8ER]

 

Its the off season and quiet so I will try to juice a little discussion. So how you hunt is between you, the State Wildlife Regulators and whatever Moon Goddess/Earth Mother or Hunt Gods you ascribe to.

 

For my part I just happen to hunt on foot and cover a bit of ground over rugged remote country. Been at it that way coming up on 50 years. Carrying a carbon fiber stocked, skinny barrel'd 270 with nice little 3-9 scope. This is a sweet shooting rig, but being light on weight and optics power I am not sure how well I can reach out past 450 yards.

 

Most of my 500, 600, 1000 yard shots are on paper with a rifle twice the weight, twice the optic power and a 30MM scope tube. If I carried that thing up and over Coues Country I could only cover half as much ground as I would like.

 

I just enjoy covering more ground, exploring to a degree and making several different stands a day. Also get a sense of accomplishment coming up with a bucks within 400 yards or less.

 

Unlimbering an 14lb F-class target rifle from an ATV to Snipe deer at longer ranges does not satisfy my itch to really hunt.

 

 

If your rifle weighs more than 10 LBS you might be sniping not hunting

if your rig sports 30MM tube you might be sniping not hunting

if your scope has exposed target turrets you might be sniping not hunting

 

Do we want to scour the countryside of mature prime breeding bucks because we can? Would it be more to the benefit of the herd and hunt quality if we dialed it back and kept things a little more "fair chase"?

 

Now before you take offense and light me up, please re-read first paragraph and the above paragraph.

 

 

 

I ask myself this same question all the time. AZAV8ER what exactly do you think needs to be dialed back? Is it just the distance or is it the equipment as well?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Equipment, when I wrote that I was thinking minimum equipment to mess with makes my hunt more fun (for my ways of doing it). My concession to equipment over and above what my Dad and Uncle carried was a carbon fiber tripod for 10X42 binocs and a range finder. Tripod has been an incredible addition, range finder is just another bothersome little device that needs a battery but when the time comes its the only way to figure out if you are looking at a 300, 350 or 400 yards shot.

[brian390]

Knuckleheads... A bunch of knuckleheads...

This was way to easy for this guy. Sets up a new profile to protect his prestigious internet persona and fires up all the monkeys with his 1st post. He sat his fat butt in a blind over a gut pile, with a cooler full of beer and a doobie, and waited for the yotes to come. He knew y'all better than you know yourselves.

 

This threat should be called, "Internet Sniping" instead... lol.

 

I'm not saying that this post is set up by an anti hunter or whatever, but I've always wondered if anti hunters ever try to come on this website with new accounts and try to knock hunting in a negative way without saying it.

[firstcoueswas80]

8th response to the post was a post full of wisdom, but no one chose to take the advice.

[AZAV8ER]

 

Knuckleheads... A bunch of knuckleheads...

This was way to easy for this guy. Sets up a new profile to protect his prestigious internet persona and fires up all the monkeys with his 1st post. He sat his fat butt in a blind over a gut pile, with a cooler full of beer and a doobie, and waited for the yotes to come. He knew y'all better than you know yourselves.

 

This threat should be called, "Internet Sniping" instead... lol.

 

I'm not saying that this post is set up by an anti hunter or whatever, but I've always wondered if anti hunters ever try to come on this website with new accounts and try to knock hunting in a negative way without saying it.

 

LOL raised by Dad and Uncle who were both hard core AZ hunters all their lives. Also very ethical and active in conservation. I have been hunting S AZ for whitetails for 50 years and probably good for another 10 years. Keep up kids.

[Flatlander]

As we get more efficient, more capable at killing prime breeding bucks (due in part to equipment that lets us kill at very long ranges) I ask myself, are we hurting future deer populations by leaving lesser bucks to do the breeding? Does any other hunter here give that a thought? Not challenging

your methods, just thinking how we hunt is changing and what if any impacts are there because of that?

In a similar spirit to this comment, if we continue to improve the methods of taking game, but dont have anyway to increase the renewable resource of game animals, then arent we bound to hunt ourselves out of opportunity. Aldo Leopold compared this to improving a pump without improving a well. Eventually you will run out of water.

 

I also disagree with the argument that just because a method of take is legal, that it should be embraced by the hunting community. Another Leopold quote was that Ethics were doing the right thing when no one was looking, even when the right thing might be legal. The North American model of wildlife management is based on these principles and the principle of fair chase.

 

Fair chase is also a foundational principle for both P&Y club and B&C. In the past, hunters policed themselves and carried the burden of defining acceptable practice. Today that sentiment has changed greatly. We regularly see comments stating essentially if its legal, dont question it. Perhaps we should be questioning more things amongst ourselves instead of squashing debate. Perhaps we should not declare that our actions are beyond question simply because they are beyond prosecution.

 

Maybe we owe it to ourselves and to future hunters to have the conversation.

[Swivelhead]

 

As we get more efficient, more capable at killing prime breeding bucks (due in part to equipment that lets us kill at very long ranges) I ask myself, are we hurting future deer populations by leaving lesser bucks to do the breeding? Does any other hunter here give that a thought? Not challenging

your methods, just thinking how we hunt is changing and what if any impacts are there because of that?

In a similar spirit to this comment, if we continue to improve the methods of taking game, but dont have anyway to increase the renewable resource of game animals, then arent we bound to hunt ourselves out of opportunity. Aldo Leopold compared this to improving a pump without improving a well. Eventually you will run out of water.

 

I also disagree with the argument that just because a method of take is legal, that it should be embraced by the hunting community. Another Leopold quote was that Ethics were doing the right thing when no one was looking, even when the right thing might be legal. The North American model of wildlife management is based on these principles and the principle of fair chase.

 

Fair chase is also a foundational principle for both P&Y club and B&C. In the past, hunters policed themselves and carried the burden of defining acceptable practice. Today that sentiment has changed greatly. We regularly see comments stating essentially if its legal, dont question it. Perhaps we should be questioning more things amongst ourselves instead of squashing debate. Perhaps we should not declare that our actions are beyond question simply because they are beyond prosecution.

 

Maybe we owe it to ourselves and to future hunters to have the conversation.

 

^^^^ This

Technology has changed hunting forever. Having a conversation about method of take is OK in my opinion.

[AZAV8ER]

 

 

 

Its the off season and quiet so I will try to juice a little discussion. So how you hunt is between you, the State Wildlife Regulators and whatever Moon Goddess/Earth Mother or Hunt Gods you ascribe to.

 

For my part I just happen to hunt on foot and cover a bit of ground over rugged remote country. Been at it that way coming up on 50 years. Carrying a carbon fiber stocked, skinny barrel'd 270 with nice little 3-9 scope. This is a sweet shooting rig, but being light on weight and optics power I am not sure how well I can reach out past 450 yards.

 

Most of my 500, 600, 1000 yard shots are on paper with a rifle twice the weight, twice the optic power and a 30MM scope tube. If I carried that thing up and over Coues Country I could only cover half as much ground as I would like.

 

I just enjoy covering more ground, exploring to a degree and making several different stands a day. Also get a sense of accomplishment coming up with a bucks within 400 yards or less.

 

Unlimbering an 14lb F-class target rifle from an ATV to Snipe deer at longer ranges does not satisfy my itch to really hunt.

 

 

If your rifle weighs more than 10 LBS you might be sniping not hunting

if your rig sports 30MM tube you might be sniping not hunting

if your scope has exposed target turrets you might be sniping not hunting

 

Do we want to scour the countryside of mature prime breeding bucks because we can? Would it be more to the benefit of the herd and hunt quality if we dialed it back and kept things a little more "fair chase"?

 

Now before you take offense and light me up, please re-read first paragraph and the above paragraph.

 

 

 

I ask myself this same question all the time. AZAV8ER what exactly do you think needs to be dialed back? Is it just the distance or is it the equipment as well?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Equipment, when I wrote that I was thinking minimum equipment to mess with makes my hunt more fun (for my ways of doing it). My concession to equipment over and above what my Dad and Uncle carried was a carbon fiber tripod for 10X42 binocs and a range finder. Tripod has been an incredible addition, range finder is just another bothersome little device that needs a battery but when the time comes its the only way to figure out if you are looking at a 300, 350 or 400 yards shot.

 

Nothing says you can't carry a muzzle loader or a bow during a general season hunt. If it is a more difficult challenge you are after then there are ways to do that. I spent days backpacking with limited water and still lugged a 14lb rifle that I feel is an extension of my arm because I can trust my ability and gear when I need it. It made for a challenging but rewarding hunt. I pushed my absolute physical abillites and cannot wait to do it again!

 

 

I have done both, backpack hunt for deer and elk with both rifle and muzzle loader. It is a challenging and very rewarding experience. Have also hunted some with a recurve bow, now thats hunting at its purest.

[turbo]

Hunting has bigger threats than a thread on a website.

And this thread is relatively tame. Off season or on, the longbow, recurve, homemade, non compound bow sites can get heated. Stickbow leatherwall has over 320 replies in the thread hunting accuracy/proficiency .

Like a lot of you said, the discussion of improved equipment and its effect on the species is legitimate.

[trphyhntr]

 

Knuckleheads... A bunch of knuckleheads...

This was way to easy for this guy. Sets up a new profile to protect his prestigious internet persona and fires up all the monkeys with his 1st post. He sat his fat butt in a blind over a gut pile, with a cooler full of beer and a doobie, and waited for the yotes to come. He knew y'all better than you know yourselves.

 

This threat should be called, "Internet Sniping" instead... lol.

 

I'm not saying that this post is set up by an anti hunter or whatever, but I've always wondered if anti hunters ever try to come on this website with new accounts and try to knock hunting in a negative way without saying it.

 

ive called it a few times on here.

 

 

As we get more efficient, more capable at killing prime breeding bucks (due in part to equipment that lets us kill at very long ranges) I ask myself, are we hurting future deer populations by leaving lesser bucks to do the breeding? Does any other hunter here give that a thought? Not challenging

your methods, just thinking how we hunt is changing and what if any impacts are there because of that?

In a similar spirit to this comment, if we continue to improve the methods of taking game, but dont have anyway to increase the renewable resource of game animals, then arent we bound to hunt ourselves out of opportunity. Aldo Leopold compared this to improving a pump without improving a well. Eventually you will run out of water.

 

I also disagree with the argument that just because a method of take is legal, that it should be embraced by the hunting community. Another Leopold quote was that Ethics were doing the right thing when no one was looking, even when the right thing might be legal. The North American model of wildlife management is based on these principles and the principle of fair chase.

 

Fair chase is also a foundational principle for both P&Y club and B&C. In the past, hunters policed themselves and carried the burden of defining acceptable practice. Today that sentiment has changed greatly. We regularly see comments stating essentially if its legal, dont question it. Perhaps we should be questioning more things amongst ourselves instead of squashing debate. Perhaps we should not declare that our actions are beyond question simply because they are beyond prosecution.

 

Maybe we owe it to ourselves and to future hunters to have the conversation.

 

people kill shoot illegally now just to get likes from strangers on the internet.

[Flatlander]

 

 

 

 

Knuckleheads... A bunch of knuckleheads...

This was way to easy for this guy. Sets up a new profile to protect his prestigious internet persona and fires up all the monkeys with his 1st post. He sat his fat butt in a blind over a gut pile, with a cooler full of beer and a doobie, and waited for the yotes to come. He knew y'all better than you know yourselves.

 

This threat should be called, "Internet Sniping" instead... lol.

I'm not saying that this post is set up by an anti hunter or whatever, but I've always wondered if anti hunters ever try to come on this website with new accounts and try to knock hunting in a negative way without saying it.

ive called it a few times on here.

 

As we get more efficient, more capable at killing prime breeding bucks (due in part to equipment that lets us kill at very long ranges) I ask myself, are we hurting future deer populations by leaving lesser bucks to do the breeding? Does any other hunter here give that a thought? Not challenging

your methods, just thinking how we hunt is changing and what if any impacts are there because of that?

In a similar spirit to this comment, if we continue to improve the methods of taking game, but dont have anyway to increase the renewable resource of game animals, then arent we bound to hunt ourselves out of opportunity. Aldo Leopold compared this to improving a pump without improving a well. Eventually you will run out of water.

 

I also disagree with the argument that just because a method of take is legal, that it should be embraced by the hunting community. Another Leopold quote was that Ethics were doing the right thing when no one was looking, even when the right thing might be legal. The North American model of wildlife management is based on these principles and the principle of fair chase.

 

Fair chase is also a foundational principle for both P&Y club and B&C. In the past, hunters policed themselves and carried the burden of defining acceptable practice. Today that sentiment has changed greatly. We regularly see comments stating essentially if its legal, dont question it. Perhaps we should be questioning more things amongst ourselves instead of squashing debate. Perhaps we should not declare that our actions are beyond question simply because they are beyond prosecution.

 

Maybe we owe it to ourselves and to future hunters to have the conversation.

people kill shoot illegally now just to get likes from strangers on the internet.

Ok, whats your point?

[trphyhntr]

 

 

 

 

 

Knuckleheads... A bunch of knuckleheads...

This was way to easy for this guy. Sets up a new profile to protect his prestigious internet persona and fires up all the monkeys with his 1st post. He sat his fat butt in a blind over a gut pile, with a cooler full of beer and a doobie, and waited for the yotes to come. He knew y'all better than you know yourselves.

 

This threat should be called, "Internet Sniping" instead... lol.

I'm not saying that this post is set up by an anti hunter or whatever, but I've always wondered if anti hunters ever try to come on this website with new accounts and try to knock hunting in a negative way without saying it.

ive called it a few times on here.

 

As we get more efficient, more capable at killing prime breeding bucks (due in part to equipment that lets us kill at very long ranges) I ask myself, are we hurting future deer populations by leaving lesser bucks to do the breeding? Does any other hunter here give that a thought? Not challenging

your methods, just thinking how we hunt is changing and what if any impacts are there because of that?

In a similar spirit to this comment, if we continue to improve the methods of taking game, but dont have anyway to increase the renewable resource of game animals, then arent we bound to hunt ourselves out of opportunity. Aldo Leopold compared this to improving a pump without improving a well. Eventually you will run out of water.

 

I also disagree with the argument that just because a method of take is legal, that it should be embraced by the hunting community. Another Leopold quote was that Ethics were doing the right thing when no one was looking, even when the right thing might be legal. The North American model of wildlife management is based on these principles and the principle of fair chase.

 

Fair chase is also a foundational principle for both P&Y club and B&C. In the past, hunters policed themselves and carried the burden of defining acceptable practice. Today that sentiment has changed greatly. We regularly see comments stating essentially if its legal, dont question it. Perhaps we should be questioning more things amongst ourselves instead of squashing debate. Perhaps we should not declare that our actions are beyond question simply because they are beyond prosecution.

 

Maybe we owe it to ourselves and to future hunters to have the conversation.

people kill shoot illegally now just to get likes from strangers on the internet.

Ok, whats your point?

It's pretty gay.

[muledeerarea33?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Knuckleheads... A bunch of knuckleheads...

This was way to easy for this guy. Sets up a new profile to protect his prestigious internet persona and fires up all the monkeys with his 1st post. He sat his fat butt in a blind over a gut pile, with a cooler full of beer and a doobie, and waited for the yotes to come. He knew y'all better than you know yourselves.

 

This threat should be called, "Internet Sniping" instead... lol.

I'm not saying that this post is set up by an anti hunter or whatever, but I've always wondered if anti hunters ever try to come on this website with new accounts and try to knock hunting in a negative way without saying it.

ive called it a few times on here.

 

As we get more efficient, more capable at killing prime breeding bucks (due in part to equipment that lets us kill at very long ranges) I ask myself, are we hurting future deer populations by leaving lesser bucks to do the breeding? Does any other hunter here give that a thought? Not challenging

your methods, just thinking how we hunt is changing and what if any impacts are there because of that?

In a similar spirit to this comment, if we continue to improve the methods of taking game, but dont have anyway to increase the renewable resource of game animals, then arent we bound to hunt ourselves out of opportunity. Aldo Leopold compared this to improving a pump without improving a well. Eventually you will run out of water.

 

I also disagree with the argument that just because a method of take is legal, that it should be embraced by the hunting community. Another Leopold quote was that Ethics were doing the right thing when no one was looking, even when the right thing might be legal. The North American model of wildlife management is based on these principles and the principle of fair chase.

 

Fair chase is also a foundational principle for both P&Y club and B&C. In the past, hunters policed themselves and carried the burden of defining acceptable practice. Today that sentiment has changed greatly. We regularly see comments stating essentially if its legal, dont question it. Perhaps we should be questioning more things amongst ourselves instead of squashing debate. Perhaps we should not declare that our actions are beyond question simply because they are beyond prosecution.

 

Maybe we owe it to ourselves and to future hunters to have the conversation.

people kill shoot illegally now just to get likes from strangers on the internet.

Ok, whats your point?

It's pretty gay.

chicken butt!

[ThomC]

All of the road hunters that think that 1000yd shots are just fine are getting butt hurt. The topic should be debated rationally if that is possible.

[trphyhntr]

All of the road hunters that think that 1000yd shots are just fine are getting butt hurt. The topic should be debated rationally if that is possible.

im pretty sure its mostly guys that hike out to high points that are lobbing the furthest shots.