Specific Spotting Scope Advice

[broadhead]

Hello,

I've done a lot of reading trying to pin this answer down as close as I could before posting it as a new thread. I know the "which optic is best" threads are done to death but I have a rather specific question I'm sure someone on the forums has the experience to answer. My question is regarding what size spotting scope (i.e. magnification and objective lens) is typically sufficient to get the job done, and I'll include the details for what I'm doing below as well as the optics inventory I use now.

 

But before I begin let me say that I'm not looking for recommendations for which brand I should go with. Believe me, I've been down that road before and I'm not looking to do it all over again. Odds are I'll be sticking with Vortex and I recently learned a lot of folks on forums (not necessarily this one, just in general) HATE Vortex and/or worship another manufacturer and no matter what anyone asks they just come back to what they like or don't like. I don't care. Yes, I know Swarovski is awesome. Yes, I know there are other manufacturers with good warranties. And yes, I'm sure someone a person you know once talked to had a Vortex break while out on a hunt. I don't care. If you have some personal insight on an optic you believe is comparable and is worth me looking at then by all means shoot me a PM. I'd like to hear about it. But for now I'm probably going to go with the Vortex Razor in either the 22-48x65 or the 27-60x85 and I'm using that as the reference point for this post. So with that out of the way...

 

Here's what I'm into and this is why I need the advice of you experienced guys when choosing my spotting scope. I've recently decided that I'll probably be dedicating most of my efforts to hunting mature mule deer and coues deer bucks, which means I'll also be making a major effort at improving my glassing skills, spending a lot of time picking apart the thick cover such as the manzanita tangles and other desert nightmares. Not just overlooking a good looking area and glassing it for an our or two, but making deliberate effort to identify mature buck habitat before I hit the field and glassing the heck out of it until I either find a buck or am content there isn't one there before moving on. My go-to optics are the Razor 10x42s and tripod mounted Kaibab 15x56s. I've found that I can identify deer very easily when they're either in the open up to mostly hidden at ranges up to 600 yards with those two but when the brush gets thicker or the deer are bedded deeper I can't pick them up very well. I just can't see them without higher magnification and clarity. So the intent behind adding a spotter when the situation calls for it is to get a closer, more detailed look into the cover or at the next ridge without having to get up and move that way, potentially jumping another closer buck I haven't spotted yet. Truly let the glass do the walking, as the saying goes. The other thing I noticed is that even when I identify a buck at distances further than 600 yards I have a difficult time making out the quality of the rack, especially on coues deer. So for that purpose also I want to use the spotter for the usual reason of justifying going after a deer once I spot one. At the end of the day what it boils down to is will the 65mm with a max magnification of 48 be adequate for this or should I go with the 85 which goes all the way to 60? Conversely is the 85mm too much scope when most of my classing will be under two miles maximum? I'm aware of how much each of these spotters weighs and I'm okay with that. It likely will be a piece of gear I bring along only when I specifically need it.

 

Sorry this is a long post but I wanted to put out there exactly what I'm using it for rather than just ask what I should buy. And thanks again for not turning this into an optics p*****g match.

 

b

[chico]

IMHO---get what you can afford , use it and if you think you need to upgrade do so .

I don't know about others on here but that is how I started and I did as I just stated .

Very happy with the glass that I have now .

[GreyGhost85]

Most 65mm scopes lose a lot of light when on max power. Even the high end european. It boils down to how much weight you want to carry. 85mms are about double the weight of a 65mm. I cant justify the extra weight of a big 85mm with my hunting style is why i use a 65mm Zeiss.

[gr8fuldoug]

Good morning I read your thread.

Basically you need to keep in mind that even the best spotters are only good to about 85% of their maximum power. So a 48x starts losing clarity and quality around 40/41x and a 60x at around 51x. With this in mind, if the size and weight is not an issue then I strongly suggest a 60x.

As important as the spotter is the rock solid quality of the tripod it is sitting on. If the tripod is even a tiny bit shaky than the image suffers.

As far as your choice of brands, hey that is what it is. In the $1,000.00 - $2,000.00 price range there are many awesome choices, not that the Razor is not a great choice, just in my experience you can get the exact same optical quality in a scope with superior production quality control in an Athlon Cronus, or a Meopta or a Zeiss Gavia 85. Just my feeling being in the industry.

Please take a monet to read this review posted by a user on another forum, https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12388847/spotting-scope-review#Post12388847 for no other reason than to expand your references

If i can answer anything for you please feel free to give me a call

[Big Browns]

PM sent

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

Go with the 27-60 razor, with 15 binos the 16-48 won't get you much closer than just using the 15 binos. Right now I'm running 12 binos and the razor 16-48 but my partner has 15 binos and the 27-60 razor and I like that set up better.

My goal is to jump to 15 binos and 60 spotter this year.

[rossislider]

I have the newer version of the Vortex Razor 85 straight spotter. Prior to that I had a Vortex Viper 65 straight spotter. Like you, I know the Swarovski 95 is exponentially better, but it isn't in the budget and I have had a lot of Vortex products over the years with great results. Here is my opinion:

 

The 65 viper was great, but light gathering in low light, and even decent light, wasn't getting me what I wanted. The 85, while larger, still fits into my same pack compartments and the size/weight difference really has not been noticeable to pack around. The light gathering however is a huge improvement in just about all light situations. I recently took my brother-in-law on his first hunt, a coues hunt. I found a buck bedded at around 500 yards under a bush that was virtually invisible. All you could see was the black on his nose, and that only when he moved it by chewing. We were able to keep an eye on him for a couple of hours till he got up. Without the spotter, he was almost invisible, even with my 12x50 Swaro ELs.

 

Shoot me a PM if you have any questions.

[rossislider]

Also, like someone else said, you really don't use a spotter zoomed out all the way. You start to lose some clarity at a certain point.

[broadhead]

These are some great responses. Thank you guys very much for reading the post and providing exactly the type of responses I asked for.

 

Gr8tgfuldoug, Thanks for including that review. I read it carefully and was able to extract some really good information. The part you mentioned about losing light up over a certain range of magnification was something I did not take into consideration prior to reading that and it will go a long way into my decision as it is directly relevant to the situations I will be needing the scope the most. I also appreciate you leaving out the personal bias and only including the pertinent information (on both forums). I'm open to hearing suggestions for optics but this post was focusing on something else and you were right on point.

 

Rossislider, that's exactly the type of first hand experience I was hoping to gain when I originally posted. I needed to know what separates the 65 from the 85 in the type of specific conditions I'll be using it in. While I will be using it to glass very long distances, its main use will be scrutinizing the thick brush for those wise hidden mulies and coues just like you described. Thank you!

 

Thanks to everyone who contributed as well. It got me much closer to making an informed decision on a crucial piece of gear. I'm going to actually put my hands on each of those scopes tomorrow as well as a few other brands to see how I feel. If anyone else has anything similar to add I am very eager to hear it. Thanks again, guys. This has been the most beneficial forum post I've had yet. Take care.

 

b

[lancetkenyon]

I cannot glass for extended periods with my spotter. I use my 10x42s for glassing out to a mile. Then switch to my 15x56s and re-glass anything from 800 and out to 2 miles or so. I spotted antelope at 7+ miles with my 15s according to a map I checked later. Spotter is for a closer look at game a long ways out.

[CatfishKev]

Something to at least consider. You could go with 12 razors around the neck and kaibab 20's and swap them around on the tripod. That could give you a pretty good look before glassing with the spotter.

[Swivelhead]

Go big, a large objective is desirable when observing @ higher magnification, especially in low light. Often, the limiting factors on spotters is mirage, airborne particulates, humidity, wind, etc. There will be times when the spotter will stay in the pack as conditions are not conducive to their use. Spotters require a reasonably stout tripod & head combo as breezy conditions are the norm. This is my experience over the years.

[broadhead]

Go big, a large objective is desirable when observing @ higher magnification, especially in low light. Often, the limiting factors on spotters is mirage, airborne particulates, humidity, wind, etc. There will be times when the spotter will stay in the pack as conditions are not conducive to their use. Spotters require a reasonably stout tripod & head combo as breezy conditions are the norm. This is my experience over the years.

Very true. Like I mentioned, the optics that get the most use are the 10s and 15s. I've spent the majority of my time glassing either a new area or in an area where I've already found a buck behind the 15s so like you said, the spotter will only come out when it is needed for a specific reason or may stay back all together.

[Lucafu1]

Ive had the 85mm Razor spotter, it was great for looking at sheep. At high magnification it did struggle. I sold it for a 65mm Swarovski mainly for size and weight but the 65mm is optically better. The Razor is close but I could definitely tell a difference between the two. If you get a good deal (even on the first gen Razor) I would do it.

[Big or Bust]

And the Meopta S2 smokes them all and is on par,if not better than, the 80mm+ Swaro HD's...