An Open Dialog on G & F Laws

[azsugarbear]

I want to have a frank and open discussion about the game and fish laws in Arizona. I do not approach this lightly. And I suspect there will be some blow-back from some hunters, so I am a little nervous. But I feel it is something worthy of discussion, so here goes:

 

Did you know that nearly all game and fish violations are Class 2 Felonies? Did you know that enforcement officers have no latitude legally to reduce or ignore a potential violation without opening themselves up to a Class 2 Misdemeanor? Did you know that current game and fish laws make no distinction between a honest and ethical hunter who accidentally makes a mistake and violates a law and then self-reports and the true criminal poacher who purposefully and intentionally sets out to break the law?

 

I learned this the hard way in the Fall of 2016. Without going into much detail, I unintentionally shot a second turkey while mentoring a new hunter on his first turkey hunt. It was on a Saturday evening with the sky beginning to spit some rain. We quickly dressed out the birds and packed up camp. There was no cell service where we were, so no ability to call and report. By the time we got to town with cell phone service it was dark and with rain coming down sideways. Since AZGFD was closed for the weekend, I decided to self report the incident first thing Monday morning. In hindsight, I guess I should have called the "Stop Game Thief" hot line, but I honestly did not see myself as a poacher or game thief.

 

Monday morning found me at G&F headquarters. I told the lady at the reception desk that I needed to self-report a game violation. She became rather puzzled and flustered - almost like she didn't know what to do. She finally called an officer to come out of the back room to meet with me. I had always been raised as an ethical hunter, so I felt that self-reporting was the only option for me. I trusted in the knowledge that AZGFD and I were on the same side: that we had the same goals in mind. By the time my interview was finished, I had all kinds of bells and whistles going off in my head. The interviewing officer told me not to worry. He said, "Game and Fish wants to encourage hunters to self-report violations, so we are given great latitude in how we deal with it". Only later did I learn from my attorney that an officer of the law can legally lie, misrepresent, mislead, misstate, threaten, etc. during the course of an investigation in order to gather the evidence he needs to build a case.

 

The next day, I contacted my brother, who happens to be an attorney here in Phoenix. The first several minutes were spent with me listening him tell me how stupid I was to self-report. I assured him I had done the 'right thing' and that AZGFD would be fair with me. I then got a legal lesson in how things really worked. My brother sat me down with the Arizona Revised Statutes Title 17-309 to 310, plus 17-340. After reading them, I was white as a sheet. I learned that nearly all game and fish violations are Class 2 Felonies - that's right - felonies, not misdemeanors. I also learned that officers have no latitude in dealing with said violation without opening themselves up to charges. I waited patiently for some word from G & F.

 

About a month later, I got a call from an officer who wanted to drop by my house. Well, my heart sank. There was no need to drop by my house unless I was getting a citation. Sure enough - a Class 2 Felony. This is not some light slap on the wrist, this is right up there with violent crime and drug use. The law makes no distinction between a drug user caught with illegal drugs, a criminal who commits a violent act, a poacher who spotlights deer and shoots several - only to get caught months later by a tip to the hot line, or an honest hunter who turns himself in for an accidental mistake.

 

I won't go into any more detail about what happened after that unless there is enough interest. Just know that my experience was expensive, demeaning, and that I elected to go through a program that required me to voluntarily give up several of my constitutional rights (such as opening my house and family to warrantless searches 24-7; to voluntarily submit, at my own expense, to drug tests; to neither own nor possess any firearms; etc.) rather than plead guilty to the Class 2 Felony.

 

My purpose in writing this is two-fold: First to make others aware of exactly what the law says and requires so that we as hunters can make informed decisions; secondly: to see if there is support for getting the laws changed so that there is a legal difference between a hunter who self-reports and criminals who a caught committing true crimes. From my own research, there are about 19 states that currently recognize the distinction between the two actions. Sadly, Arizona is not one of them.

[trphyhntr]

[HuntHarder]

So, I think there should be a distinction between the two different types of situations. The caveat is there needs to be a time limit to self report. I see this option turning into a way for poachers, who know they are possibly busted, to self report and receive a lower sentence. There would have to be a bunch of qualifiers included in the law language to distinguish between the 2 minimum penalties. i.e. shoot wrong specie during a lawful hunt, exceed bag limit during a lawful hunt. In other words, do not let blatant violators have an option to self report if they get remorse or if they feel they have been busted by another hunter. The language would have to be very specific.

[bonecollector777]

First lesson regarding the game and fish: Don't ever think they are there to help you. They are there to stick it to you whatever way they can. Almost every person I know that has self reported has gotten the same treatment as people caught red handed. They don't care and just want to say they caught more people this year than last and made more in fines this year than last. Of any law enforcement agency I've seen in my life the game and fish is the worst at showing no mercy on people. Even if they can't prove you did it they will do what they can to make a story that tries to pin it on you. I've never been cited personally but have had plenty of friends that have commuted very minor mistakes and they are treated as if they went out and blasted 10 does and left them to rot. Bottom line don't talk to them. Don't let them search anything. Never admit to anything. In most cases people convict themselves when they talk. It's unfortunate it's this way because it does make guys scared to self report but that's how they have made it. Don't get me started on the cases they just ignore when it comes to their own guys breaking the law.

[wildwoody]

Your right my brother in law is a phoenix police officer, he told me its a crime to lie to a officer of the law but they can lie to make a case, pure BS, and he agrees, one problem is the county judges hate dealing with wildlife violations, so they throw the book at you they don't care and they get the fine money not the games, so its no longer the way we were taught to on up to our mistakes doesn't work anymore, so SSS! sorry this happened to you , you would of at least got to plea bargin if you raped someone to a misdemeanor

[DesertBull]

Congress is debating giving amnesty to 800,000 illegals and you are losing your constitutional rights over a stupid freaking bird.

 

My sons ex got involved with some some scum bag tweeker and was arrested for child abuse, selling drugs and child endangerment and is walking the streets free with charges dismissed because of rehab and a plea deal.

 

The USA is circling the drain

[Old Buck]

Most g and f violations are class 2 misdemeanors. Check ARS 17-309B to confirm.

[AverageJoe]

Huh? I just read through the ARS statutes and you would be guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor, not class 2 felony. I couldnt find anything about a class 2 felony. By any chance did this happen in Unit 1?

[wildwoody]

Ouch, you gave up the farm, at least you don't have to vote for idiots anymore

[ForkHorn]

Huh?

1: A quick Google search shows that they are class 2 misdemeanors..

 

2: You didn't self report at your first opportunity, for all anyone knows they were already on to you and that's why you self reported.

 

3: I have been at several camps where first time hunters I didn't know shot the wrong deer/Javelina, more than one, etc and they were all treated fairly after self reporting right away.

[bonecollector777]

Like other have said the only felonies usually regard selling illegal animal parts or lacy act violations. Or guiding people and killing things illegally. If you got paid to guide him on his turkey I guess technically they could get you with a class 6 felony but that's a stretch.

[trphyhntr]

Bro you're gonna be alright you're just gonna lose your license for 5 years

[Delw]

I'd be the 1st one to commend AZG&F on just about everything with the EXCEPTION of there law enforcement division. most of the time they go a little to far under circumstances. They are no better than cops probably because they are.

I know 3 wardens personally there down right good guys and don't over exaggerate certain situations. like a few others do.

 

Heres where you screwed up.

you went to the main office, that right there is a no no they are worse than a school districts zero tolorance policy deal.

in my opinion your did that right thing. shows your intergraty and honesty yeah sometimes it doesnt pay well except when the law is concerned then it never pays to be honest..

 

hence the reason people carry shovels.

 

I don't know if your case went up to the commissioners yet but I believe they all do. The commissioners will be the ones I believe that decide your fate. make sure you dont miss that appointment.

Also can you explain you shot a second turkey your info leaves alto left out.

did you hit two with one shot, did you shoot one it ran away and you shot another. where you driving down the road and jumped out to shoot them? in a stand etc etc.

[GreyGhost85]

Had a buddy who “poached” a dove. Lots of fines, years of probation and license suspended for 5 years. Dude that went ahead of him at his hearing poached a sow AND her 2 cubs. He received a 3-year suspension because he “showed remorse for his actions” and my buddy didn’t feel too bad about shooting a dove.

[wildwoody]

First wants wrong with cops there not tree police, anyway it sounded like he took the penalty without pleading guilty, 22 game wardens are awesome totally fair, but if he took a first timer hunting why did he shoot 2 birds, did the first timer get on, just wondering was there a total of 3 birds killed?