Nosler Prepped Cases

[forepaw]

Well, the neck turning I am think of is just to even out the thickness of the neck brass, to only remove any thicker areas (NOT to reduce the overall thickness) in order to make the neck more uniform and concentric, and therefore center the bullet more in relation to the bore. In other words, only remove metal from the high spots, and not from the entire circumference of the neck. The match grade chamber and bushing thing would be way beyond what I am trying to achieve.

 

Well, I am on board with your idea. Maybe do some before and after run-out checks to see how much wobble has been reduced with the uniformed necks? I am not sure how much this would transfer to a measurable improvement in hunting accuracy, but it is worth a try. If your chamber is concentric with the bore, it might not produce a huge dividend relative to the time invested, but hard to judge without doing it.

 

The guys at gunwerks produce some pretty good shooting ammo

( https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t-s&p=youtube+gunwerks+reload#id=2&vid=908a34621aae5f91d0efcb85501fc232&action=click ) using the neck-tension method, and I don't believe they turn necks. I am not promoting gunwerks, but they do have helpful tips, comments, and shortcuts.

 

When you get some results, hope you will post them back here. We'll all learn something!

 

forepaw

[Mr. Natural]

I am not sure how much this would transfer to a measurable improvement in hunting accuracy...

 

That's really what it comes down to. I will have to invest in the tools to find out, which I am still debating. I do have a good guinea pig, I have some hunting handloads for my .270 that already shoot sub-MOA. I could load 10 with turned necks, and 10 without...that should be a good enough sample to a detect any measurable difference, I think. This assumes the Winchester brass I use for that load has plenty of case neck thickness variability to make a difference.

 

In case anyone is having trouble picturing what I mean, here is a good illustration I found (the picture is exaggerated, of course). I would turn the necks just enough to make the thick side the same thickness as the thin side, removing NO metal from the thin side. The idea being that the inside circumference would then be concentric to the outside circumference, theoretically making the bullet more concentric to the bore.

 

[Hoss50]

If you have got a round that is sub MOA in a hunting rifle you are doing pretty good. Without a tight tolerance gun chasing things like neck turning seems to probably be way far down the list of things to chase.

[300RUM]

I do turn necks in the manner you are describing. My necks are usually 0.016 thick. I attach a Forester hand neck turning tool to my workbench with a C-clamp and use a case holder in a cordless drill to run the cases through. It goes pretty fast and you only have to do it once. I am not going to jump up and down claiming it makes a huge difference. However, trying to keep a hunting rifle under 0.5 MOA is a game of eliminating variables, even little ones. You mention the bullet being held off center due to a variation in neck thickness on a given case. Another issue is that in a given set of cases the average neck thickness may vary so when they are resized some will have more neck tension than others. Again, probably not a huge deal but my mindset is to just turn the necks and I then know that neck variations are not one of my problems.

[Mr. Natural]

I do turn necks in the manner you are describing. My necks are usually 0.016 thick. I attach a Forester hand neck turning tool to my workbench with a C-clamp and use a case holder in a cordless drill to run the cases through. It goes pretty fast and you only have to do it once. I am not going to jump up and down claiming it makes a huge difference. However, trying to keep a hunting rifle under 0.5 MOA is a game of eliminating variables, even little ones. You mention the bullet being held off center due to a variation in neck thickness on a given case. Another issue is that in a given set of cases the average neck thickness may vary so when they are resized some will have more neck tension than others. Again, probably not a huge deal but my mindset is to just turn the necks and I then know that neck variations are not one of my problems.

 

Good info, thanks. Out of curiosity, have you ever compared group sizes with turned necks vs. un-turned necks being the only variable?

 

I realize that in itself (the benefits of uniforming the neck thickness) will likely vary from one rifle to another, but have you observed any noticeable difference?

[300RUM]

 

I do turn necks in the manner you are describing. My necks are usually 0.016 thick. I attach a Forester hand neck turning tool to my workbench with a C-clamp and use a case holder in a cordless drill to run the cases through. It goes pretty fast and you only have to do it once. I am not going to jump up and down claiming it makes a huge difference. However, trying to keep a hunting rifle under 0.5 MOA is a game of eliminating variables, even little ones. You mention the bullet being held off center due to a variation in neck thickness on a given case. Another issue is that in a given set of cases the average neck thickness may vary so when they are resized some will have more neck tension than others. Again, probably not a huge deal but my mindset is to just turn the necks and I then know that neck variations are not one of my problems.

 

Good info, thanks. Out of curiosity, have you ever compared group sizes with turned necks vs. un-turned necks being the only variable?

 

I realize that in itself (the benefits of uniforming the neck thickness) will likely vary from one rifle to another, but have you observed any noticeable difference?

 

When I started prepping brass I began doing the following all at once.

 

Check that flash holes are centered in primer pocket.

Ream flash holes.

Ream primer pockets.

Turn necks.

Weight sort to sets under 0.5 gr variance.

 

I have not done isolated tests on each item but I did test a set of unprepped cases against a prepped set using a 700 .308 with R-P brass. I took a set of 10 unprepped cases from a lot of brass then prepped the rest and selected a set of 10 prepped cases to compare. I would put 2 targets out and fire 1 round from each set alternately at its respective target so no set had any advantage by being first or last. I also fired across a chrono. I reloaded the 2 sets and repeated the test a number of times. The unprepped cases ran around a 40 FPS E/S while the prepped set was around 25 FPS E/S. That is around a 60% reduction in velocity variation. At the time I did these tests I was off work for 6 months with a broken ankle and had nothing better to do than work on my guns and hang out at the range. The rifle, load and myself were all well tuned and capable of consistent accuracy well under 0.5 MOA. The unprepped set was much more likely to have fliers that opened up groups.

 

This was just 1 load and rifle and as 10Turkeys points out another rifle simply may not show a substantial improvement, even with all the prep done.

 

I also expect much less improvement is likely with higher quality brass like Lapua, Nosler or Norma VS something like R-P or Winchester.

 

I have a set of Nosler brass on the shelf for my .300 RUM when the current R-P brass wears out. I was a bit skeptical when I read the "weight sorted" claim on the package. I scaled them all and was very impressed. They did an incredible job.

[Mr. Natural]

Yeah, that kind of leads back to my original question. If the Nosler brass have uniform necks already, no point spending money on tools and time turning them.

 

Thanks for the input.

[forepaw]

If you are still gathering intel on neck turning, check out the article by Rick Jamison in the most Recent issue of Handloader. Very good info.

 

forepaw

[MMACFIVE]

 

 

 

 

I do turn necks in the manner you are describing. My necks are usually 0.016 thick. I attach a Forester hand neck turning tool to my workbench with a C-clamp and use a case holder in a cordless drill to run the cases through. It goes pretty fast and you only have to do it once. I am not going to jump up and down claiming it makes a huge difference. However, trying to keep a hunting rifle under 0.5 MOA is a game of eliminating variables, even little ones. You mention the bullet being held off center due to a variation in neck thickness on a given case. Another issue is that in a given set of cases the average neck thickness may vary so when they are resized some will have more neck tension than others. Again, probably not a huge deal but my mindset is to just turn the necks and I then know that neck variations are not one of my problems.

Good info, thanks. Out of curiosity, have you ever compared group sizes with turned necks vs. un-turned necks being the only variable?

 

I realize that in itself (the benefits of uniforming the neck thickness) will likely vary from one rifle to another, but have you observed any noticeable difference?

When I started prepping brass I began doing the following all at once.

 

Check that flash holes are centered in primer pocket.

Ream flash holes.

Ream primer pockets.

Turn necks.

Weight sort to sets under 0.5 gr variance.

 

I have not done isolated tests on each item but I did test a set of unprepped cases against a prepped set using a 700 .308 with R-P brass. I took a set of 10 unprepped cases from a lot of brass then prepped the rest and selected a set of 10 prepped cases to compare. I would put 2 targets out and fire 1 round from each set alternately at its respective target so no set had any advantage by being first or last. I also fired across a chrono. I reloaded the 2 sets and repeated the test a number of times. The unprepped cases ran around a 40 FPS E/S while the prepped set was around 25 FPS E/S. That is around a 60% reduction in velocity variation. At the time I did these tests I was off work for 6 months with a broken ankle and had nothing better to do than work on my guns and hang out at the range. The rifle, load and myself were all well tuned and capable of consistent accuracy well under 0.5 MOA. The unprepped set was much more likely to have fliers that opened up groups.

 

This was just 1 load and rifle and as 10Turkeys points out another rifle simply may not show a substantial improvement, even with all the prep done.

 

I also expect much less improvement is likely with higher quality brass like Lapua, Nosler or Norma VS something like R-P or Winchester.

 

I have a set of Nosler brass on the shelf for my .300 RUM when the current R-P brass wears out. I was a bit skeptical when I read the "weight sorted" claim on the package. I scaled them all and was very impressed. They did an incredible job.

I have a question on Noslers weight sorted brass. I think this means that the 50 (or 25) in a box will be consistent., but the next box while although still consistent could be a very different weight?

 

BTW I have measured the neck thickness variance on a box of 50 Nosler brass and it was very good.

[STOMP442]

My .02 cents worth. Nosler brass is very good and very uniform from the get go. I have not had a problem using it in any of the rifles I use or have built and it delivers excellent results. Case volume (not weight) is the number one concern for me and Nosler produces very uniform brass. Neck turning, flash hole deburring and all the other little things have their place but I am willing to bet most shooters will not see the improvement on paper. A bench rest or match shooter yes, they will and every little bit helps. For hunting rifles Nosler brass is well beyond good enough. Neck turning does have its place though and generally most beneficial when wildcatting or necking down brass of one caliber to form another say, for example, .308 down to .260. in which the brass in the neck area becomes thicker and will cause excessive neck tension and form the dreaded donut at the neck shoulder junction. Turning the necks down to a uniform thickness eliminates this problem.

[Mr. Natural]

I decided not to bother trying to turn the necks on the Nosler brass. I proceeded with working up a hunting load with them and am happy with the results so far.

[L Cazador]

I decided not to bother trying to turn the necks on the Nosler brass. I proceeded with working up a hunting load with them and am happy with the results so far.

My experience with Nosler brass is that it is going to be .002"-.004" thicker on one side of the neck than the other. And Lapua brass as of late is no better. Production has sped up in recent years due to consumer demand. And guess what, some quality specs that were never allowed to pass, are now passing. Some folks are certainly going to be happy with "minute of deer" shooting quality and just load their brass out of the box. For me, neck turning and developing the absolute best quality ammo I can shoot is number one in my book. I've been neck turning since 1975 and I believe there isn't a rifle cartridge that doesn't benefit from neck turning! By the way some Nosler brass is being made in Nevada by Nosler. Nosler bought the old 'silver state armory' manufacturing plant.

[Mr. Natural]

I know I started this thread over a year ago, but I have a bit of an update...not about Nosler brass but about what I have since learned about turning case necks.  I did end up getting a hand neck turning tool and a concentricity/runout gauge, but to use on the Hornady brass I am currently using to develop an elk load for my 7mm Rem mag.  I found that just turning the case necks in and of itself was not particularly beneficial, but in conjunction with checking (and correcting as needed) case neck concentricity before loading, and then bullet run-out after loading, it made quite a noticeable difference, at least in my Savage.

In the target below (100 yds), the upper group of five shots (the hole closest to the center of the group was two shots) were five loads with only the necks turned.  POA was the black square and POI was intended to be 2-1/2" high (the small squares are 1/2")...not too shabby.  For comparison, the lower three shot group were neck turned loads with attention paid to concentricity and run-out.  POA was the lower edge center of the grid, again right on the expected 2-1/2" high POI.  I had five loaded that way, but I wanted to shoot a couple at 300 yds to see where they impacted, and they were well under MOA (under 2-1/2" apart with a bit of variable wind).  Well worth the tedious effort IMO.

[10Turkeys]

What was your run out, before you corrected it?

[Mr. Natural]

Some didn't need any correction.  The amount would depend on where (how close to the tip) you are measuring, right?  I was measuring about 3/4 of the way from the edge of the case neck to the meplat, with a variance of 2 or 3 thousandths in some cases.