MMACFIVE Report post Posted November 4, 2017 For back ground a few years ago I bought a 1990'ish Remington KS Mountain Rifle in 7mm STW. This Rifle has been very finicky to load for. I've found a load of Nosler 168gr ABLR over a heavy charge of IMR 7797 with F215s and RP brass that gives 3125 fps and a legit 1/2 MOA. It will also shoot Nosler 160 AB with a couple more grains of the same powder at 3200 fps to nearly the same group, A friend gave me a nearly full box of Berger 168gr VLD hunting bullets. I figured I'd load some up, sight in, and ring steel the other day. I am constricted by the magazine length so I just used the same load as the Nosler 168gr ABLR at 3.65" OACL (max for my box). I shot one 3 shot group at 100 yards and it was a little over 5"? I've always heard good things about how Berger's shoot so I expected better. I shot a verification round of my 168gr Nosler ABLR then used them for the steel. My bore probably had 35-40 (still within its accuracy range) of the Nosler's through it before I tried the Berger's. Does anybody have any suggestions. The easy thing is to shoot the Noslers! BTW it wont shoot 162gr ELD-X's worth a crap either. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cjl2010 Report post Posted November 4, 2017 Ladder test, seating depth test, ocw test. Do a google search and you will get all the info you could ever want about bergers. Good luck!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CraigK Report post Posted November 4, 2017 Vld's are seating depth sensitive. You can look up info on bergers recommendations for seating depth. They shoot great touching the lands or .005 off for me, but seems like others get them to shoot seated much deeper. I bet lancekenyon would have some good insight on this. Good luck. They are awesome bullets once they get honed in. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted November 4, 2017 Yes, VLDs are very often seating depth sensitive. But just like any other bullet, you usually won't just have your first load be your best load. You need to do a full load work up with them. I have had them shoot great from jammed tight to the lands to .120" jump in various rifles. For me, most shoot best at .0500-.0600" jump. Like others have suggested, start with a ladder test to find an accuracy node, then charge weight testing to tighten it up, and finally seating depth testing to bring it in even more. I have rarely (maybe never?) seen a rifle that does not like Berger bullets after load development is complete. I use them in almost every rifle I own. If you have any questions about load development, let us know. Tons and tons of knowledgeable reloaders and shooters on here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke-BE Report post Posted November 5, 2017 Do what is said above. My Bergers never did well in the mag but did well with 0.05 jump single shot. (Tikka Mag) I like having rounds in the mag so the bergers didn't work for me. If your cranking out that velocity and 1/2 MOA I would just keep the nosler. If your doing it just for fun and see what it can do, do what Lances suggest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dcshorthairs Report post Posted November 5, 2017 +1 on the seating depth. Also what powder are you using? My rem 7mag loves retumbo with a Berger on top Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cell4soul Report post Posted November 5, 2017 Yes, VLDs are very often seating depth sensitive. But just like any other bullet, you usually won't just have your first load be your best load. You need to do a full load work up with them. I have had them shoot great from jammed tight to the lands to .120" jump in various rifles. For me, most shoot best at .0500-.0600" jump. Like others have suggested, start with a ladder test to find an accuracy node, then charge weight testing to tighten it up, and finally seating depth testing to bring it in even more. I have rarely (maybe never?) seen a rifle that does not like Berger bullets after load development is complete. I use them in almost every rifle I own. If you have any questions about load development, let us know. Tons and tons of knowledgeable reloaders and shooters on here. Do you load for seating depth before powder charge? Curious because I go the opposite way and I am probably doing it wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted November 5, 2017 I do: Ladder test @ 400 for an accuracy and flat spot in velocity node Charge weight testing @ 100-200 in that range of preferred node Seating depth testing @ 100-200 Long range verification @ 500 to 900+ that recipe is going to maintain the accuracy I want Go kill something 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMACFIVE Report post Posted November 5, 2017 Yes, VLDs are very often seating depth sensitive. But just like any other bullet, you usually won't just have your first load be your best load. You need to do a full load work up with them. I have had them shoot great from jammed tight to the lands to .120" jump in various rifles. For me, most shoot best at .0500-.0600" jump. Like others have suggested, start with a ladder test to find an accuracy node, then charge weight testing to tighten it up, and finally seating depth testing to bring it in even more. I have rarely (maybe never?) seen a rifle that does not like Berger bullets after load development is complete. I use them in almost every rifle I own. If you have any questions about load development, let us know. Tons and tons of knowledgeable reloaders and shooters on here. Thank you Lance, I want to make sure what you said or at least what I heard. Since my gun has shown itself capable of good accuracy and even though the single group I shot was over 5" that you would expect the Bergers to shoot well. You are suggesting that I start all over with a ladder test, then go to OACL testing to dial it in? Like I said in my OP the easy thing to do is shoot the Noslers. I obviously don't have any attachment to Bergers. But I'd really like to shoot the 162 gr ELD-X. Would you expect the same to work for the Horndy's? Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMACFIVE Report post Posted November 5, 2017 Do what is said above. My Bergers never did well in the mag but did well with 0.05 jump single shot. (Tikka Mag) I like having rounds in the mag so the bergers didn't work for me. If your cranking out that velocity and 1/2 MOA I would just keep the nosler. If your doing it just for fun and see what it can do, do what Lances suggest Zeke, I tend to agree with you. A 1/2 MOA gun at those velocities is good enough! But I like to tinker. And I have a box of Bergers. You gave me a good idea. For shooting steel I am OK with a single shot. I will try my current load jammed into the lands and turn in the seating depth up to Lance's .120" and give it a try. I won't do a new ladder test with the Bergers but I am likely to follow Lances protocol with the ELD-X's. Mike 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maximus Report post Posted November 5, 2017 read this http://www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMACFIVE Report post Posted November 5, 2017 read this http://www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/ Perfect! If lucky 'll get to try it this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
