Rut?

[Giladad1]

Does anyone out there have any experience with the Dec hunts, as far as what kind of rut activity to expect, if any? Thanks, Mark

[TAM]

I've seen rut activity during the first part of the late December hunts, but it intensifies the later the hunt goes. I also think that the further north you go the earlier the rut will occur. A lot of times you will see middle age bucks gathering does early on and seemingly rutting it up. However as soon as the rut really kicks into full swing a larger more mature buck will step in, give the boot to the middle age buck that did all the work in gathering the does, and cash in on the younger bucks work.

[firstcoueswas80]

Last year, I was able to guide in two December hunts, both in 36b. The weather varied much through the hunt... The Thursday before opening day, we all were in shorts and Tshirt... then Friday we were bundled up!

 

On the first week of the hunt, it stayed cool but not cold and did not have much if any rut activity. The second hunt ( it was the last week in December) it got really cold, and we even got snow!!! SNOW IN 36B!!!! It was crazy! We didnt see much rutting activity then either. heck, I remeber Jim, Christian and myself glassed up two small bucks with swollen necks... but they were together. Weird

 

Second week in Janurary I was pig hunting and glassed up a 105" type buck ( pure estimate based on what I am bout to type). He was chasin two does HARD... in fact, on his right side he was a gorgoues typical 4 point, with eye guards... all of his tines were broke off about 1-2 inches above where they start, but his 18-19 inch main beam was still intack as was his 6 inch eye guard. on his left side, hes eye guard was gone, but his 8" G2 was still in tact... but his whole main beam was broke off about 2 inches past that! He had his nose to the ground and had been beaten up but it was easy to see what was on his mind! I wanna run across the buck who whooped his but here in two or three weeks!

[curmudgen]

I may be nuts, but I believe the beginning of the rut has shifted to a later date since the late 70s, about when we started having the late rifle hunts. My recollection is that during the early years of the December hunts, when the permits often went begging, my brother and I would see rutting and sparring bucks everywhere we looked, but after a few years of three hunts a year the rutting activity seemed to start later, until now it's mainly after the first of the year. I'd like to know whether anyone agrees with that or if there have been any observations by the professionals to support or refute my opinion, as it is based solely on my own meagre experience. It may be, too, that the deer are more nocturnal and not so visible after the two earlier hunts. Jack

[SouthernCouesHunter]

curmugden: I would have to agree with you. I have hunted December and January in (35A/30B) very hard for the last 6 years and have seen that the rut has come later and later each year.

 

Usually though, we start seeing pre-rut activity just after the archery season opens but don't see any chasing until the second or third week in January.

[TAM]

Perhaps you guys are right, I don't know. Perhaps it's related to weather? I can remember as a kid having much colder winters with more rain. I can remember having to scrape ice off my winshield quite regularly when I was going to school. I haven't had to do that for a long time. The summer monsoons hit hard each year every other day or so and lasted two months. We don't seem to get as extreme weather either way anymore. Just my observations anyway.

[GRONG]

For what it's worth, in early Nov (Nov 5th actually) I saw two scrapes in my favorite area. One looked a week or so old and the other looked less than a day. Both in the same hill side. Not sure what that all meant in deer terms, I'm just telling you what I saw.

[firstcoueswas80]

I do think that it has to do with the weather... I have always thought the colder the better....

[TREESTANDMAN]

Well from what I've read, the rut is based on the amount of light in a day. Does going into heat is what really gets the rut going regardless of the weather. Yes, colder weather may increase the activity of deer which makes it seem like the rut is going harder. I've noticed that the peak of the rut typically happens early January in the areas I hunt, in other words that is when most of the does are in heat. There are several stages of the rut. In late November to early January I've noticed the bucks will start rubbing and scraping, they will start broadening their range in search of does. Some does may go into heat as early as the first part of december but most do not. That is why you will have some hunters swear the rut is in full swing while every one else isn't seeing any rut action. One canyon may have 1 doe in heat and bucks are just swarming all over her while for miles around her there is no other major action. The key is to find the canyon or ridge where the doe is in heat. As december progresses more and more does come into heat increasing the chances of a hunter finding good action and the bigger dominant bucks.

 

I've been lucky enough to be in a treestand (only twice) while a doe was in heat nearby. That one day I saw 8 different bucks come in all of them sniffing the ground where she had peed. I also watched them chasing her. Unfortunately the 1 big buck I was after never came in. I'm sure he was tending another doe in heat somewhere else.

 

It has been surveyed that drought conditions may postpone does going into heat. The year after a drought year does usually have there fawns late signifying most does came into heat later than normal.

 

After a buck sheds his velvet his body's testoserone levels increase little by little. If you glass a lot you will see little sparring matches in November and the larger more dominant bucks get more irritable and intolerant of other bucks as time progresses.

 

I'm definately not an expert on the rut in any circumstances but I have done a lot of experiments using different doe in urine products, scrape drippers, rattling, grunting, mock scrapes etc and I believe I've discovered some consistent truths about the rut over the years.

 

3 years ago during the first week of december I was out scouting and found a nice bench with 3 trails crossing and deer tracks. I looked around and didn't see any scrapes or rubs. I made 2 mock scrapes hanging a scent dripper on one of them and dripped dominant buck urine. I sprayed a licking branch on each mock scrape with forehead scent gland. I set up my moultrie digital camera and came back a week later. There were 5 new large scrapes and a bunch of rubs within a 40 yd circumference and deer tracks everywhere. My worthless moultrie ended up being a dud and had no pictures. I went and got another camera and set it up. A week later I went back and had several hundred pictures of 2 90+" bucks with pictures of them scraping.

 

I've had a couple of similar experiences since. I believe the bucks are ready to breed the moment they shed their antlers, all it takes is a doe in heat and it is on!! I have had very good success with certain brands of buck/doe urine's which I won't mention because then it would ruin the fun of experimentation for you bowhunters that treestand hunt.

[DesertBull]

Found a very fresh scrape near my tree stand yesterday. I smelled it before I saw it.

 

PS..Don't eat the yellow snow.

[deernut]

Here is an excerpt from Chapter 7 of my book. I am shamelessly plugging my book here, but I can't help it -- it is packed full of answers to so many quesitons I see coming up on this forum:

 

"Photoperiod triggers physiological changes that lead up to the rut; however, there is a strong genetic factor that predetermines a certain breeding time for deer in a particular location. The peak of the whitetail rut is a little later, on average, than mule deer in the same areas. The necks of whitetail bucks begin to swell in November, but breeding doesn’t generally start until late December and may continue into late February (Table 14). The peak in rutting activity generally occurs during early to mid-January throughout most of Coues whitetail range, but rut may occur a little earlier in higher elevations of the Sierra Madres of Sonora and Chihuahua, Mexico.

Some of the best information on breeding dates of Coues whitetails comes from Ockenfels et al. (1991), who monitored 36 radiocollared whitetails in the Santa Rita Mountains of southeastern Arizona. The earliest rutting behavior during that study occurred on November 7th and the latest on March 16th. Many of these extreme observations were likely inexperienced yearling bucks. The average peak of the rut was mid-January based on observations of rut behavior between 1988 and 1991. Bristow (1992) examined 20 pregnant does in this same region and found the average date of conception occurred during the first week of January.

Disturbance of deer during breeding season is often raised as a factor of concern in affecting the reproductive potential of deer herds, yet many states hunt deer during the rut with no discernable negative effects. Bristow (1992) compared pregnancy rates, fawning dates, and reproductive performance of Coues whitetail does in an area where harassment during rut was intensive to another area where deer were not intensively disturbed. Researchers in this case intentionally harassed and fired rifle shots near whitetails they encountered in the disturbance area throughout December and January. Individual deer were followed until they left the study area or could no longer be located, with many deer being disturbed several times. The disturbance level in the treatment area was twice that of the undisturbed area and averaged 28 deer disturbed and 18 shots fired per day in less than six square miles. There was no difference between disturbed and undisturbed areas in pregnancy rate, number of fetuses per doe, or date of conception. There is no evidence limited and low-density hunts currently offered during the rut negatively affect reproduction."

 

JIM

[curmudgen]

Here is an excerpt from Chapter 7 of my book. I am shamelessly plugging my book here, but I can't help it -- it is packed full of answers to so many quesitons I see coming up on this forum:

 

"Photoperiod triggers physiological changes that lead up to the rut; however, there is a strong genetic factor that predetermines a certain breeding time for deer in a particular location. The peak of the whitetail rut is a little later, on average, than mule deer in the same areas. The necks of whitetail bucks begin to swell in November, but breeding doesn’t generally start until late December and may continue into late February (Table 14). The peak in rutting activity generally occurs during early to mid-January throughout most of Coues whitetail range, but rut may occur a little earlier in higher elevations of the Sierra Madres of Sonora and Chihuahua, Mexico.

Some of the best information on breeding dates of Coues whitetails comes from Ockenfels et al. (1991), who monitored 36 radiocollared whitetails in the Santa Rita Mountains of southeastern Arizona. The earliest rutting behavior during that study occurred on November 7th and the latest on March 16th. Many of these extreme observations were likely inexperienced yearling bucks. The average peak of the rut was mid-January based on observations of rut behavior between 1988 and 1991. Bristow (1992) examined 20 pregnant does in this same region and found the average date of conception occurred during the first week of January.

Disturbance of deer during breeding season is often raised as a factor of concern in affecting the reproductive potential of deer herds, yet many states hunt deer during the rut with no discernable negative effects. Bristow (1992) compared pregnancy rates, fawning dates, and reproductive performance of Coues whitetail does in an area where harassment during rut was intensive to another area where deer were not intensively disturbed. Researchers in this case intentionally harassed and fired rifle shots near whitetails they encountered in the disturbance area throughout December and January. Individual deer were followed until they left the study area or could no longer be located, with many deer being disturbed several times. The disturbance level in the treatment area was twice that of the undisturbed area and averaged 28 deer disturbed and 18 shots fired per day in less than six square miles. There was no difference between disturbed and undisturbed areas in pregnancy rate, number of fetuses per doe, or date of conception. There is no evidence limited and low-density hunts currently offered during the rut negatively affect reproduction."

 

JIM

Thx, Jim. That pretty much shoots down my theory that the late hunt has pushed back the rut, although my theory that the deer have gotten more nocturnal with multiple hunts may still be viable. Incidentally, I have your book and gave several copies as Christmas gifts last year. It's a great addition to the literature on Coues deer. Jack

[SilentButDeadly]

I saw a mature buck this morning with a doe....

[coues7]

Well from what I've read, the rut is based on the amount of light in a day. Does going into heat is what really gets the rut going regardless of the weather. Yes, colder weather may increase the activity of deer which makes it seem like the rut is going harder. I've noticed that the peak of the rut typically happens early January in the areas I hunt, in other words that is when most of the does are in heat. There are several stages of the rut. In late November to early January I've noticed the bucks will start rubbing and scraping, they will start broadening their range in search of does. Some does may go into heat as early as the first part of december but most do not. That is why you will have some hunters swear the rut is in full swing while every one else isn't seeing any rut action. One canyon may have 1 doe in heat and bucks are just swarming all over her while for miles around her there is no other major action. The key is to find the canyon or ridge where the doe is in heat. As december progresses more and more does come into heat increasing the chances of a hunter finding good action and the bigger dominant bucks.

 

I've been lucky enough to be in a treestand (only twice) while a doe was in heat nearby. That one day I saw 8 different bucks come in all of them sniffing the ground where she had peed. I also watched them chasing her. Unfortunately the 1 big buck I was after never came in. I'm sure he was tending another doe in heat somewhere else.

 

It has been surveyed that drought conditions may postpone does going into heat. The year after a drought year does usually have there fawns late signifying most does came into heat later than normal.

 

After a buck sheds his velvet his body's testoserone levels increase little by little. If you glass a lot you will see little sparring matches in November and the larger more dominant bucks get more irritable and intolerant of other bucks as time progresses.

 

I'm definately not an expert on the rut in any circumstances but I have done a lot of experiments using different doe in urine products, scrape drippers, rattling, grunting, mock scrapes etc and I believe I've discovered some consistent truths about the rut over the years.

 

3 years ago during the first week of december I was out scouting and found a nice bench with 3 trails crossing and deer tracks. I looked around and didn't see any scrapes or rubs. I made 2 mock scrapes hanging a scent dripper on one of them and dripped dominant buck urine. I sprayed a licking branch on each mock scrape with forehead scent gland. I set up my moultrie digital camera and came back a week later. There were 5 new large scrapes and a bunch of rubs within a 40 yd circumference and deer tracks everywhere. My worthless moultrie ended up being a dud and had no pictures. I went and got another camera and set it up. A week later I went back and had several hundred pictures of 2 90+" bucks with pictures of them scraping.

 

I've had a couple of similar experiences since. I believe the bucks are ready to breed the moment they shed their antlers, all it takes is a doe in heat and it is on!! I have had very good success with certain brands of buck/doe urine's which I won't mention because then it would ruin the fun of experimentation for you bowhunters that treestand hunt.

 

NOT TO GET SIDE TRACKED HERE BUT HOLY COW......MIKE IS STILL ALIVE!!!! I THOUGHT YOU'D DIED AND GONE TO COUES HEAVEN. GLAD TO SEE YOU POSTING AGAIN!!

 

ok on with the discussion.

[Coach]

Typically, I've always seen heavier rut activity starting in the last week of December, but I was out this last weekend and the bucks were definately in full rut mode where I was hunting - In fact it was some of the most obvious rut activity I've ever seen. Unfortunately all the bucks in my crosshairs were little guys, the biggest being a large 2x3. Here's hoping the big guys will move back in and reclaim their does!