Bullet selection questions

[CatfishKev]

My son has a junior deer and elk tag. He will be shooting a 7-08 and taking a 243 as a emergency back up gun. Optimal shooting range will be 100-400 yards 500 in a pinch.

 

1. I have always had the kids aim for double lung shots and not through the shoulder. Should I change gears and have them aim for the meat of the shoulder? I never did this because I didn't want to waste meat.

 

2. Givin the optimal shooting range what type of ammo would you recommend that I could pick up at cal ranch TODAY since I'm in Sierra Vista that will work well on these animals.

 

I have been shooting winchester super X, and hornady SST. Last year my daghter killed her cow with the sst and it was a lung shot that penciled though. I'm kind of looking for something that will open decent on a lung shot if that even exists. I was kind of thinking about the Berger VLD but I'm not sure.

 

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I am just not up to speed on ballistics.

[thegunsmith2506]

Only elk I have seen shot with a berger was 410yds on a bedded cow. She ever got up. It was a 180gr 7mm. Clipped a rib going in and did more damage than I have ever seen on an elk. I have seen several shot with sst bullets from .243 to .300 wsm. It seems like they are a better deer bullet to me. They seem to come apart on big bones and not open much on ribs. Just my experience. I am sure others with more will chime in.

[Hoss50]

I dumped my cow elk with 115gr Berger VLDs from my 257 weatherby. They did just fine. Another buddy used 168gr 30 cal HVLD on the same hunt. No problems either.

[CatfishKev]

I dumped my cow elk with 115gr Berger VLDs from my 257 weatherby. They did just fine. Another buddy used 168gr 30 cal HVLD on the same hunt. No problems either.

 

Shoulder or rib shots?

[lancetkenyon]

Almost every rifle I shoot is now loaded with Bergers with the exception of various Barnes loads for when I hunt the Kaibab. Always been great killers.

 

In 7-08, I would look for something in the 140-168 weight range for elk. Might as well shoot the same thing for deer if they shoot well. I now try to shoot the same load for everything, makes sense to shoot the same thing as you can practice in varying conditions and not worry about grabbing the wrong ammo.

 

We usually shoot in the crease behind the front shoulder for a double lung shot. I have only shot for high front shoulder on 2 animals, but they both dropped on the spot. A 6.5mm 127 LRX on a Muley @ 637 yards, and a .308 215 Hybrid on a bull elk @ 437 yards. It is a very viable shooting solution that usually anchors them where they stand/fall. Broken shoulders/spines, and still hit lungs.

 

Over many years, my family members have shot deer & elk with:

.224" 69 SMK (12AW youth doe)

.257" 100 SMK, 115 HVLD (several deer and javalina)

6.5mm 130 HVLD, 140 HVLD, 140 Hybrids, 142 SMK (several deer)

.277" 140 HVLD, 150 HVLD (several deer and elk)

7mm 140 HVLD, 168 HVLD, 180 Hybrid (a few deer and elk)

.308" 168 HVLD, 168 SMK, 175 SMK, 190 HVLD, 210 HVLD, 210 SMK, 215 Hybrids (a few deer and a lot of elk)

 

Shots have ranged from 18 to 662 yards on big game. All performed fantastic.

 

I think the 7-08 is plenty for closer range elk out to 400-500 and medium range deer out to 700. The .243 would not be my choice for elk, only as a last resort with a good, broadside shot opportunity. I know many elk have been taken with a .243, just not my preference. Should be enough for deer out to 500 with proper bullet choice. A 95 HVLD would be a good candidate for an all-around load.

[Hoss50]

Double lung on both elk.

 

My elk got a 2nd shot that I found out later that was not needed. The first shot hit both lungs leaving good size holes in them. She stopped and looked back at me quartering with her head away and I punched her through the lung and into the far side front shoulder. She went 10 feet and fell over. The shots were at about 280 yards.

 

My buddy with the 30.cal was a 300 win mag at 350 yards. 1 shot double lung and she ran a little and fell.

 

The 257 at almost 300 yards isn't going to be a shoulder breaker. The 300 probably would have been fine though.

[CatfishKev]

Thanks guys, sounds like Bergers might be the ticket. Just went to cal ranch and all they have is Hornady. Doubt I will find any in SV.

[DCS]

Buy the hornady 100gr for the 243,and never look back.My cousin has used it in New Mexico to kill over 30 elk,bulls cows,and swears by it.We have used it in our family to kill bulls from 365 down,cows for the kids on youth hunts,and my wifes hunts.They are not afraid of it,and will shoot it well.

[Hoofnit]

Don't over think it, for what you are trying to accomplish the hornady 7mm 140's will work just fine. With either of those calibers shot placement is going to be more critical than bullet selection.

just my 2 cents...

[Big or Bust]

Almost every rifle I shoot is now loaded with Bergers with the exception of various Barnes loads for when I hunt the Kaibab. Always been great killers.

In 7-08, I would look for something in the 140-168 weight range for elk. Might as well shoot the same thing for deer if they shoot well. I now try to shoot the same load for everything, makes sense to shoot the same thing as you can practice in varying conditions and not worry about grabbing the wrong ammo.

We usually shoot in the crease behind the front shoulder for a double lung shot. I have only shot for high front shoulder on 2 animals, but they both dropped on the spot. A 6.5mm 127 LRX on a Muley @ 637 yards, and a .308 215 Hybrid on a bull elk @ 437 yards. It is a very viable shooting solution that usually anchors them where they stand/fall. Broken shoulders/spines, and still hit lungs.

Over many years, my family members have shot deer & elk with:

.224" 69 SMK (12AW youth doe)

.257" 100 SMK, 115 HVLD (several deer and javalina)

6.5mm 130 HVLD, 140 HVLD, 140 Hybrids, 142 SMK (several deer)

.277" 140 HVLD, 150 HVLD (several deer and elk)

7mm 140 HVLD, 168 HVLD, 180 Hybrid (a few deer and elk)

.308" 168 HVLD, 168 SMK, 175 SMK, 190 HVLD, 210 HVLD, 210 SMK, 215 Hybrids (a few deer and a lot of elk)

Shots have ranged from 18 to 662 yards on big game. All performed fantastic.

I think the 7-08 is plenty for closer range elk out to 400-500 and medium range deer out to 700. The .243 would not be my choice for elk, only as a last resort with a good, broadside shot opportunity. I know many elk have been taken with a .243, just not my preference. Should be enough for deer out to 500 with proper bullet choice. A 95 HVLD would be a good candidate for an all-around load.

Pretty much this....

 

Do not be afraid to punch shoulders with Berger's....

 

Not a Barnes fan. Too much stuff I've experienced has been bad.

 

If going bonded I'd go Accubond or Partition, or a heavy for caliber Sierra GK or Hornady IL are also great choices.

 

I've switch back and forth over the years and have settled on medium weight for caliber Berger's for deer stuff and medium to heavy for caliber stuff on elk....

 

I'll be in gunning 168 Vld's from a .280 Ackley at an elk in a few weeks with zero worries....

 

Hard to go wrong in today's bullet market. Your shot location is MUCH more important anyway....

 

We get too caught up in bullet selection when what really counts is practice from true field positions. ..

[KaibabHunter]

My oldest shoots a savage 7mm-08. Has taken 2 cows and 1 bull and all dropped dead within 20 yards with good crease of the shoulder/half way up the body lung shots. Distances were 110, 87, and 175. His gun likes factory Hornady 139gr SST's and they have performed fine. I don't reload.

 

Whatever they're shooting we practice so they're not afraid of the gun and can find proper eye relief on the scope besides shooting decent groups. Even more, we also drill shot placement, a smooth/calm shot process, and where to aim so they know what to expect when the moment comes. A little dry fire at home on a magazine pic of an elk/deer is good practice. I try to keep it simple. Fun to see them take such pride in their good shot placement just like we've practiced. We leave Friday for our next jr cow hunt for my youngest. Good luck

[sherman]

I have never had a problem with the sst passing through the are my go to bullet

Maybe use the interlock I have had good luck with them as well I have some 100 gr 6 mm interlock if you want to try and I have to go to Vista tomorrow as well the pictures are of a 25/06 117 gr sst

[CatfishKev]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to just finish off the sst's that I have and then look at having some loads developed.

 

Sherman thanks for the offer I appreciate it, but I will pass.

[CatfishKev]

The sst ended up working just fine. She was quartering away and i think started to turn just as he shot while i was lifting my bimos to my face. Looks like it bounced off the rib and right into her leg.

[sherman]

Looks like a a good job from the shooter and the bullet