Forest Service closing approx. 50% of our roads!

[DesertBull]

We can all thank the yahoo quad riders who can't seem to stay on established roads for this. It would be easy to blame the tree huggers for this, but I'm convinced that the real reason behind this is the out of control quads tearing up the forest. The quad nuts will be easier to control with more roads closed. A perfect example of a few wrecking it for everyone.

 

Mark

 

 

How? If they are not obeying the current laws, what makes us believe they obey new ones?

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Bill,

What is your take on the freeway they are building on the backside of you there going through Sunrise, across to Sheeps crossing, etc? You have probably had a chance to check it out first hand, I haven't tried to check it out at all. Is the plan to go all the way to Big Lake with that?

Jeff

[mattys281]

We can all thank the yahoo quad riders who can't seem to stay on established roads for this. It would be easy to blame the tree huggers for this, but I'm convinced that the real reason behind this is the out of control quads tearing up the forest. The quad nuts will be easier to control with more roads closed. A perfect example of a few wrecking it for everyone.

 

Mark

 

I didn't have the balls to say it, but that's exactly what I was thinking.

I do have to note, however, that the tracks through the meadow I mentioned were jeep or truck tracks, not a quad. The problem isn't isolated with one group, it's an over abundance of inconsiderate a-holes in general.

 

I don't doubt that the wolf project has some influence on this move, but generally speaking I'm not buying the conspiracy theories about the FS trying to close the forests to everyone. I do believe they're trying to limit the reach of the a-holes who disregard the laws & tear up the land, but unfortunately they can't set-up road blocks & scan for idiots so they have to keep everyone out.

 

Another thing to consider is how many more rvs & travel trailers are being hauled in & out of the forest than there was just a decade or two ago. I was down in 31 scouting this weekend & there must of been 20 of 'em that I passed on hwy 266 between the 191 junction & my trailhead 12 miles down the road. Big 3/4 ton trucks dragging 25,000 lb. trailers down dirt roads & off the road to set up camp can't possible do equivalent damage to the soil & grass as a tent camp does. You guys want all your big toys & creature comforts, perhaps this is the price that you're going to pay.

 

I don't know for certain, just throwing ideas out there.

 

Matt S.

[crazy4COUES]

Bill,

What is your take on the freeway they are building on the backside of you there going through Sunrise, across to Sheeps crossing, etc? You have probably had a chance to check it out first hand, I haven't tried to check it out at all. Is the plan to go all the way to Big Lake with that?

Jeff

 

Yes it will continue all the way to the Big Lake junction at Crescent Lake. If you get a chance look at were the temporary road closure gates are across the highway. You will notice there are two tracker roads going around them. That pisses me off! It will happen everywhere as soon as the USFS tries to close the roads. "OUTLAWS" will just make more two trackers getting back to the area they wanted anyhow. This will make more of a mess than already exists. UGH it will be a can-o-worms!

[crazy4COUES]

We can all thank the yahoo quad riders who can't seem to stay on established roads for this. It would be easy to blame the tree huggers for this, but I'm convinced that the real reason behind this is the out of control quads tearing up the forest. The quad nuts will be easier to control with more roads closed. A perfect example of a few wrecking it for everyone.

 

Mark

 

XXX WRONG! You are singling out quad riders....you need to realise it is the "OUTLAWS" that are causing problems drive pickups too. As mentioned in my post above. MANY, MANY trucks also are being driven around, over through road blocks. The problem is lack of enforcement on current laws. Closing more is not going to help without anymore enforcement. It is just as easy for you to blame the quad riders as it is the next guy to blame the environMENTALists. Look for the problem not the symptoms. The symptoms will lead you to the root problem. Once the problem is diagnosed, you need to do something to fix it. If they continue to "SHOTGUN" the symptoms the problem will never go away. That is how I see it.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

I had pretty much avoided that neck of the woods just because of the construction, but I see it kind of a contradiction in messages. On one hand we a making a freeway back in to Big Lake, and then saying that we are going to cap off the little roads...so a basically run the cows down to the catch pen and expect them to stay right there?

 

I do believe that fingers can be pointed in every direction with regards to barricade busters. People who would bust them with a wheeler, would probably do the same thing in a jeep or gigantuous 4X4 four door truck.

 

What about the barricades all along the burn area on the rim? Convienient excuse to close the roads, but will they ever be reopened again.

 

One more thing....with the population growth that Arizona has experienced over the last 10 years, legal or illegal, and the continued projected growth in population, we can only look forward to more of the same with regards to the management or lack thereof, of our forests, hunts, fishing....outdoors.

[billrquimby]

My understanding about the new Sunrise to Big Lake road is that it will graded and graveled, and not paved, at least for now. They are re-routing the road at Sheep's Crossing and building a new bridge across the Little Colorado. I haven't heard if it's in the plan, but I would hope that they would create a number of pull-off parking spots along the road into the canyon.

 

However, knowing how planners like to keep people in "managable" clumps, there probably will be just one large parking lot complete with toilets ... a long walk from where most of us want to fish.

 

There was a story in the White Mountain Independent this summer saying the "improvements" probably won't be finished in 2008 because of "problems."

 

A sign at the barricade by the toilets on the Sunrise side says entering the closed area can bring a fine of $5,000 (I think it was) and imprisonment. That hasn't stopped some people. As has been noted, there aretracks going around the gate on the Greer to Sheep's Crossing road.

 

If they don't close the little roads that provide throw-down camping closer to Crescent Lake, I don't think improving this route will hurt a thing, except to fill up the designated campgrounds quicker with fifth wheelers and motorhomes that might have gone elsewhere. The paved road from Eagar past Mexican Hay Lake hasn't hurt.

 

I look forward to the improved Sunrise-Big Lake road cutting the time on my trips to the Black River. I just don't want to lose any of the short two-trackers off the Poole Corral road or off the Big Lake to Black River roads.

 

Closing more roads to keep people off roads that already are closed, or because wolves are being re-established, are the dumbest excuses for eliminating two-trackers I've ever heard.

 

Bill Quimby

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Sorry about the assumption there.... I just figured they must be putting pavement down as long as it was taking them.

 

I remember when McNary was still a hub, we busted an oilpan on that Big Lake road and was one of the only times I ever heard my dad swear. That is a nice drive, lots of beautiful country, just was worried they were putting the pavement down.

 

It will be fine then, but they better keep some of those camping areas open or it will turn in to down town......I really lost intrest in Roosevelt lake when they went to the developed camp area, haven't been there for years....is it pretty much all developed camping only or can you still pull up next to the lake and camp??

[billrquimby]

I don't know about Roosevelt. I haven't done much fishing since I retired from the Citizen and no longer had to report on it. If you're talking about the White Mountains, Carnero Lake the only lake off the reservation that I know of where you can camp near the water.

 

I remember when McNary's mill still was open and the town was booming, too. I stayed in its old hotel during a snowstorm that closed the road over the mountain. The place was full of elk hunters and all the rooms were taken. The desk clerk was letting people sleep in the lobby. I curled up on a coach. My wife used to like to shop in the town's general store, especially the basement where they kept the dinnerware. Time flies.

 

Bill Quimby

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Times long past....must mean we are having fun. One of the old roads we used to travel....not sure if it still exists or just in my memory, I think the place was called Maverik, up there by Reservation lake on the US side of the line, can't remember.....during the monsoons, those roads were wicked.

[billrquimby]

Times long past....must mean we are having fun. One of the old roads we used to travel....not sure if it still exists or just in my memory, I think the place was called Maverik, up there by Reservation lake on the US side of the line, can't remember.....during the monsoons, those roads were wicked.

 

I remember when Maverick (it is inside the reservation) still was an active lumber camp. I was 21 years old when I shot my first and best bull elk on the Apache Forest about a half mile from the reservation boundary, 400-500 yards off the road you're talking about.

 

A logger named Bob White (it was hard to forget his name) saw my partner and I carrying out the pieces, and stopped and helped us. He then invited us to join him for lunch at his little house in Maverick. There was no TV up there then, of course, but a weekly TV show by the same name was my favorite weekly program on Tucson's two channels.

 

This was in 1957, exactly fifty years ago. I haven't been back to Maverick since then, but I may go back next summer, just to see what happened to it.

 

Funny thing, thinking about Maverick the logging camp suddenly brought back the odor of that bull. It was then that I learned elk in full rut can stink so much.

 

Bill Quimby

[Non-Typical Solutions]

I would have been in there 15 or so years later I am guessing, it was still a logging hub at that time, at least as far as I could tell. There are alot of good hunting two trackers, that started out as logging roads.....and yeah, those bulls in the rut can be stinkers.....sorry, got way off track.