Gr8 White Jr Report post Posted November 7, 2007 I Checked the AZGFD web last night to see if I was drawn for any spring hunts. Javelina was the only thing I was drawn for. I was drawn for my 2nd choice. Too bad because I really wanted my 1st choice hunt but hey, at least Im going hunting. I decided to look up the left over tags for a friend of mine who didn't get his application in before the deadline, and what do I see? Left over tags for my 1ST CHOICE! Why on earth would I have gotten drawn for my 2nd choice if there were still tags left for my 1st choice. I started thinking I must have wrote the hunt numbers wrong on the application so I called AZGFD and spoke to a nice lady in the draw department. She looked up my application and no I did not write the hunt numbers in wrong. I explained to her my confusion. She told me that I was drawn in the "bonus point round" where 20% the tags go to applicants with the highest amount of bonus points. In that "bonus point round" my name was drawn and 20% of the tags in for my 1st choice had allready been taken so they went to my 2nd choice and I was drawn. Even though there was still 80% of the tags left for my 1st choice they gave me my 2nd choice. This makes no sense! I don't know why they even have bonus points for pig. I get drawn every year and the only bonus points that I have are the loyalty and the hunters safety and I was classified as being a high bonus point applicant? This whole draw system makes no sense! The bonus point system went into effect to give hunters a better chance at getting drawn and now its very possible that it can actually work against you. Don't mean to be complaining to every body just wanted to see if this has happened to anyone else. Oh yah, I asked the lady at AZGFD that I was speaking to if they would change my tag since there were left over tags for my 1st choice and she said no they would not. "All draw results are final". What a bunch of BS! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted November 7, 2007 GrB White Jr. Don't stop there. Send a letter to the Game and Fish Department director, along with copies (make sure your letter notes that copies are going to these peopel) to the regional supervisor in your area and all five commissioners, asking that the permit you received be voided and a new permit for the area you want be issued. Bill Quimby. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GameHauler Report post Posted November 7, 2007 A few years back my Daughters and were not drawn for Turkey. I looked at the left over permits and there were tags avalable for our first and only choice. I called GF about that and they said those tags came from people who where drawn but their credit card did not work so they put those permits into the leftovers instead of redrawing them. I was not happy about that either. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamaro Report post Posted November 7, 2007 Could it be possible that those tags were earmarked for NR but not enough NR applied? That happens in NM but I can't remember how AZ handles its NR tags.. Jason Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr8 White Jr Report post Posted November 7, 2007 Could it be possible that those tags were earmarked for NR but not enough NR applied? That happens in NM but I can't remember how AZ handles its NR tags.. Jason If I'm not mistaken, AZGFD does not set aside any tags for nonresident applicants anymore. I live only about 15 minutes away from the AZGFD headquarters in Phoenix so I am going to go down there today and see if there is some body I can speak with that will change my tag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkhunter Report post Posted November 7, 2007 Someone said about 4000 people screw up their payments and application info. It's possible all tags were taken before you got drawn and gave you your second choice and then some of those people who drew your 1st choice got application denied or payment problems and that's how they get those leftover tags, they put em back after application problems Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted November 7, 2007 "I live only about 15 minutes away from the AZGFD headquarters in Phoenix so I am going to go down there today and see if there is some body I can speak with that will change my tag." The chances of your speaking with someone who can solve your problem are slim if you just appear at an AZGFD office. Write those letters! If you send them to all the people I suggested, you will have a much better chance of getting the tag in the area you want. Bill Quimby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted November 7, 2007 Tape a $20 bill to your forehead before walking through the door. You'll have G&F falling all over each other trying to get your tag changed. If that doesn't work, tell them you have one of their precious chub minnows and that you will stab it if they don't meet your demands. Still no results? Tell them you support their plan to move all archery elk tags to November. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted November 7, 2007 Gr8White, What should G&F do to change the draw program? Change it so only the first choice in the max pool is looked at? But many would want both 1st and 2nd choices considered if they have max points after many years of applying. Reissue a tag if leftover permits are available in units one was not chosen, like in your case? If so, this would make a permit in your second choice unit available, and someone may have liked that unit more than the one they were drawn for. So the whole draw would have to be redone for each subsequent change? Should G&F make a tag swap available for leftover tags? Then, what of those who were not drawn for the the hunt turned in on the swap? Get rid of the max point draw? I can hear the screams. In a most equitable system, there will be some flaws and some inequities. Think you found a minor one. RR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elpepe25 Report post Posted November 7, 2007 amen, prechin to the choir here, i got jipped outta a spring turkey tag, my app got rejected but they still managed to take thier $7.50 app fee out. if its rejected from the draw thats fine, but dont take the app fee if the app never made it to the draw, bs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilentButDeadly Report post Posted November 7, 2007 Gr8White, What should G&F do to change the draw program? Change it so only the first choice in the max pool is looked at? But many would want both 1st and 2nd choices considered if they have max points after many years of applying. Reissue a tag if leftover permits are available in units one was not chosen, like in your case? If so, this would make a permit in your second choice unit available, and someone may have liked that unit more than the one they were drawn for. So the whole draw would have to be redone for each subsequent change? Should G&F make a tag swap available for leftover tags? Then, what of those who were not drawn for the the hunt turned in on the swap? Get rid of the max point draw? I can hear the screams. In a most equitable system, there will be some flaws and some inequities. Think you found a minor one. RR Any computer programmers out there? It seems to me that a simple Boolean expression (True/False, If, Or, And, Not) would correct the problem. Why doesn't the program take the Bonus Point round applicants and 1st choice applicants and execute them simultaneously, if there are left over tags after this point it goes to the 2nd round? I'd wondered about this same issue with my New Mexico Archery elk tag this year, I got my 3rd choice, while the other 2 out-of-state applicants I know put in the same 1st (their only) choice (I put in 2nd same unit, 3rd in different unit) and got drawn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted November 7, 2007 Oh yes, our wonderful G&F department where the blind lead the deaf.(No disprespect intended to the biologists and WM's) In the New Mexico draw this year there were leftfover permits for my second choice, yet I received a third choice tag.??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hawkeye Report post Posted November 8, 2007 Ha Ha! what draw? They just award tags to anyone and any way they want. Do you know anyone who has witnessed the draw? It is some kind of secret ritual. My wife and I put in separately to increase our odds. We both got our second choice unit 5A bull tags this year. Oh happy day, happy day. Then I looked at the permit numbers. I had #24 and my wife had #25. The odds of both of us getting our second choice in concecutive numbers are about the same as winning the Power Ball. I had about 7 points and my wife had 8 points. I was happy to be hunting, but it proves to me that there is no actual draw. I think they just take the points and give out tags to who ever they want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmf1321 Report post Posted November 8, 2007 Very good point. If this were a draw for an archery bull elk tag it would be a totally different story. I never thougt of it that way. I must agree. Small flaw. Gr8White, if you get drawn every year why make a second choice? I never do for pig. Gr8White, What should G&F do to change the draw program? Change it so only the first choice in the max pool is looked at? But many would want both 1st and 2nd choices considered if they have max points after many years of applying. Reissue a tag if leftover permits are available in units one was not chosen, like in your case? If so, this would make a permit in your second choice unit available, and someone may have liked that unit more than the one they were drawn for. So the whole draw would have to be redone for each subsequent change? Should G&F make a tag swap available for leftover tags? Then, what of those who were not drawn for the the hunt turned in on the swap? Get rid of the max point draw? I can hear the screams. In a most equitable system, there will be some flaws and some inequities. Think you found a minor one. RR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GameHauler Report post Posted November 8, 2007 I hope this does not turn into a huge GF bashing topic. I think they do a pretty good job all in all when it comes to the draw. Alot of you are upset because they stoped the online App. They had the forsite to stop a major catastrophe. No system is without problems. And no I do not think anyone has seen a draw being done since you can not crawl into a computer. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
