Rhonda's Butcher Shop Report post Posted November 13, 2007 I am not trying to push the issue but an estimate is just that... an estimate, how much would you estimate the average hide to weighs? what about the head? How much would you say the bones weigh in a quarter? Hunters are going to ask.... It only makes sense to have some sort of idea of how much meat they are going to get otherwise you are always going to end up in the scenario. Even is you estimate say 200 pounds they take 40 pounds off for error... If they get more than fine, but at least you have explained to them what they go and why they got it. You are asking hunters to "trust you" and they don't have any clue if they can trust you or not... Jason I wish it were as simple as that. there are a vast number of variables involved in attempting to establish an average weight to use as a model. let me point a few of those out so you can begin to see how complex this could become. first of all you would have to develop a model for an animal of every age beginning with a yearling to, let's say, an eight year old animal. you would have to develop this model for both bulls and cows. to use this model you would have to determine the age of each animal you take in. because range conditions in one unit may be more favorable than in another, you would have to develop models for the various units as, for example, a two year old cow from a unit with poor range conditions compared to the same cow coming out of a unit with favorable range conditons could see a weight variance of 20 to 40 pounds. we see this every year. then to make matters worse, not all animals are alike. we have weighed skins of animals that were of approximately the same age to find variances of plus or minus 15 pounds. all of the questions and concerns that are being voiced in this forum have come up at one time or another, and each time a question or concern comes up, we research it to find a solution. the best solution for all issues surrounding game processing is simple. kill the animal cleanly, field dress carefully and right away, wash the carcass and remove any hair that might have gotten on the meat during skinning, protect the carcass from insects and allow it to cool. the one most important point everyone is missing is we have no control over the animal until it is in our facility. prior to that it's all in your hands. take care of it. thank you larry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamaro Report post Posted November 13, 2007 I am not trying to push the issue but an estimate is just that... an estimate, how much would you estimate the average hide to weighs? what about the head? How much would you say the bones weigh in a quarter? Hunters are going to ask.... It only makes sense to have some sort of idea of how much meat they are going to get otherwise you are always going to end up in the scenario. Even is you estimate say 200 pounds they take 40 pounds off for error... If they get more than fine, but at least you have explained to them what they go and why they got it. You are asking hunters to "trust you" and they don't have any clue if they can trust you or not... Jason the best solution for all issues surrounding game processing is simple. kill the animal cleanly, field dress carefully and right away, wash the carcass and remove any hair that might have gotten on the meat during skinning, protect the carcass from insects and allow it to cool. the one most important point everyone is missing is we have no control over the animal until it is in our facility. prior to that it's all in your hands. take care of it. thank you larry Okay so it seems that we will not be able to get a direct answer. no big deal... It must be an industry secret or something... When I have animals processed I always pay by the out-the-door weight... That way the hunter knows that it is in the processors best interest to save as much meat as possible... BUT the bottom line is the best solution is to do it yourself.... Good Luck J- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GameHauler Report post Posted November 13, 2007 Larry, taking in all the variables, other than shock loose, I really think we could guess within 10% from gross weight to final processed meat. That being a SKINNED, CLEANED, COOLED animal. If you shoot it in the morning and can not cool it over night than get it to a walkin now! NOT after a few beer I, for one. can not understand why someone would bring you a animal with a cape on it unless they were 5 minutes away from your shop. GET THAT HIDE OFF. I hear people say they do not like the taste of WILD game DAH!!!! If it is not taken care of in the field! IT WILL TASTE LIKE MULLINS Sorry Jim, Shortpants told me that. I am ranting because people are tearing you and proccessors up in general. I have never used you so I will not make any comment about what people have said. I will say again>>> before you complain about the people you pick to take care of your harvest, you should do one yourself... Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COOSEFAN Report post Posted November 13, 2007 How does Shortpants know what I taste like? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda's Butcher Shop Report post Posted November 13, 2007 I am not trying to push the issue but an estimate is just that... an estimate, how much would you estimate the average hide to weighs? what about the head? How much would you say the bones weigh in a quarter? Hunters are going to ask.... It only makes sense to have some sort of idea of how much meat they are going to get otherwise you are always going to end up in the scenario. Even is you estimate say 200 pounds they take 40 pounds off for error... If they get more than fine, but at least you have explained to them what they go and why they got it. You are asking hunters to "trust you" and they don't have any clue if they can trust you or not... Jason the best solution for all issues surrounding game processing is simple. kill the animal cleanly, field dress carefully and right away, wash the carcass and remove any hair that might have gotten on the meat during skinning, protect the carcass from insects and allow it to cool. the one most important point everyone is missing is we have no control over the animal until it is in our facility. prior to that it's all in your hands. take care of it. thank you larry Okay so it seems that we will not be able to get a direct answer. no big deal... It must be an industry secret or something... When I have animals processed I always pay by the out-the-door weight... That way the hunter knows that it is in the processors best interest to save as much meat as possible... BUT the bottom line is the best solution is to do it yourself.... Good Luck J- there are no industry secrets and we have nothing to hide. let me put it to you this way. not all hunters are as understanding as you are. if i tell someone he can expect to get 150 pounds of packaged meat from his animal and he gets 120 pounds he gets upset and acuses me of stealing his meat. it's that simple. so how do we avoid this. we don't estimate. i have processed more elk and deer than any hunter will even see in a lifetime including the ones you watch on TV and i cannot accurately estimate how much meat you will get after cutting. still not convinced? come to my shop after thanksgiving and i'll let you take a stab at it. let's see if you can guess the weight of several animals, and how much packaged meat will come out of each one. when the processing is complete we'll get another weight and see how close you are. as far as payment for your processing, i'm familiar with most of the processors in arizona, and i don't know of any that charge for the weight of the packaged meat. can you give me this processors name and how i can reach him? i'm curious as to how he can afford to do that unless he is charging a much higher per pound price. let me elaborate on this point. lets assume two processors take in an elk that has been shot three times. one processor charges the carcass weight and your processor charges for the packaged weight. the elk both processors take in has been shot once in the shoulder, once in the stomach, and once in the hind quarters. lets say the carcass weighs 230 lbs. and both processors charge .79 lb to process. lets also assume that each processor has a crew of two wrappers, one trimmer, and two people boning out. lets assume the cutter gets $20 hr. and his crew gets paid $12 hr. both crews then operate at $80 hr. remember the elk in our example has been shot three times, and this, by the way, happens more often than i care to think about. assuming both crews can cut, trim, and wrap our example elk in 45 minutes it cost $59.85 in labor alone to process this animal. in addition to the labor you have paper cost, electrical cost (cooling and freezing, by the way each day you hold that elk is costing you money in electricity thereby reducing your profit), saw and grinder electrical cosumption, crating or boxing the meat after it is frozen. finally we can't forget the labor paid to the people handling the paperwork at receiving and the person quartering and hanging the elk. for our purposes lets say the additional expenses mentioned for processing this elk total an additional $30. the processing of this elk cost $89.85 now lets go back to what the hunter gets charged for this elk. at .79 lb. the processor charging for the carcass weight at 230 lbs. would receive $181.70. assuming this elk would generate 50% of the carcass weight in edible meat or 115 lbs. (now remember this animal was shot three times once in the stomach). are you, as a processor going to give the hunter all the meat including the meat that was contaminated by the contents of the intestines. we don't. getting back to the processors. the processor charging for the packaged weight would receive $90.85 based on 115 lbs packaged weight. the processor charging the carcass weight would profit $91.85 the processor charging packaged weight would profit $1.00 shocking isn't it? the numbers i used above are realistic and remember all processors are in business to make money just like any other business alive. now lets say this hunter didn't skin his elk, the processor did. all the hunter sees is the entry wounds, possibly an exit wound or two, and maybe some of the damage caused by the stomach wound. he can also smell and see the intestinal contamination. he probably knows he is going to lose some meat. he asks the person at receiving, how much do you think it weghs. the receiver answers around 320 lb. (this is still our elk in the example) the hunter asks, how much meat do you think i'll get? receiver answers, you should get around 150 lbs. the hunter picks up his meat to find that he did not get the 150 lbs he was told. his meat was stolen! regards larry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda's Butcher Shop Report post Posted November 13, 2007 Larry, taking in all the variables, other than shock loose, I really think we could guess within 10% from gross weight to final processed meat. That being a SKINNED, CLEANED, COOLED animal. If you shoot it in the morning and can not cool it over night than get it to a walkin now! NOT after a few beer I, for one. can not understand why someone would bring you a animal with a cape on it unless they were 5 minutes away from your shop. GET THAT HIDE OFF. I hear people say they do not like the taste of WILD game DAH!!!! If it is not taken care of in the field! IT WILL TASTE LIKE MULLENS Sorry Jim, Shortpants told me that. I am ranting because people are tearing you and proccessors up in general. I have never used you so I will not make any comment about what people have said. I will say again>>> before you complain about the people you pick to take care of your harvest, you should do one yourself... Mike thanks Mike. it's encouraging to know that there are still hunters who know where the responsibility of caring for harvested game lies. and you're right about all processors being blamed for the quality of the meat. regards larry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckhorn Report post Posted November 13, 2007 I've taken 4 deer and one elk to Rhondas Butcher Shop and haven't had any problems. And if asked would recommend them to anybody. With that said all of use have seen numerous people in the field that haven't taken care of there animals. Could you imagine having to process one thats had the hide on for five days thats been gut shot and hanging in a tree in direct sun light. Could you imagine the amount of spoiled meat that a processor sees every year? Remember that archery Bull elk with the hide still on traveling in the back of that big ford going down I-17 towards Phoenix is going to get processed by somebody. (yuk) Buckhorn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhonda's Butcher Shop Report post Posted November 13, 2007 I've taken 4 deer and one elk to Rhondas Butcher Shop and haven't had any problems. And if asked would recommend them to anybody. With that said all of use have seen numerous people in the field that haven't taken care of there animals. Could you imagine having to process one thats had the hide on for five days thats been gut shot and hanging in a tree in direct sun light. Could you imagine the amount of spoiled meat that a processor sees every year? Remember that archery Bull elk with the hide still on traveling in the back of that big ford going down I-17 towards Phoenix is going to get processed by somebody. (yuk) Buckhorn hello Buckhorn, thanks for the vote of confidence. FYI while on the subject of spoiled meat. this year to date we have turned away two elk and three deer that were completely spoiled. it's really a shame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longshooter Report post Posted November 13, 2007 WHats a ball park out the door price on a mature bull ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmergoo Report post Posted November 14, 2007 How does Shortpants know what I taste like? Thats WHY they call him shortpants ? Just funnin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan H Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Always makes you wonder why every year you see people with field photos and then later photos at home with the deer still not skinned. That can't taste good. Unless you literally only have to walk out your back door to shoot it. To me there isn't enough meat on deer especially coues to go to a processor. It's easier to bone them out on the spot, no gutting involved , and clean and process the meat at home in the kitchen. Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BML Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Hey Larry, We haven't met, but you employed my brother Charlie for a while when he lived up in Flag. For all you doubters out there, please listen to what Larry has said. My brother used to tell me the EXACT same things about hunters and the condition they brought their animals in. Frankly, it's pretty sad and rather disgusting the way some people bring in animals. Also, it really is impossible to estimate weights, due to everything Larry has stated. After hearing all the stories from my brother, I have learned a few things. First, I always cut out my own back straps and tenderloins. Other than that, I don't care to butcher my own meat, so I pay a TON of attention to field care. A couple weekends ago, I killed a small bodied spike coues deer. The extreme downward angle of the shot and a couple inches too far back made for one of the worst dressing jobs in my life. My bullet pretty much exploded inside this deer and the only recognizable organ was the heart, which I completely missed. Within one hour, that deer was hanging in the shade and I was trying my best to cut off all the damage. I spent 90 full minutes and used an entire 5 gallon jug of water cleaning that deer. I took my deer to Verde Valley Processing. I took it there because it was the closest processor to my camp and I wanted that deer in the cooler as soon as possible because it was so hot. There were plenty of places I could have taken it that would have been much more convenient come pick up time. After telling Mike what I wanted, I spoke to the other guy and told him my story. He told me that my deer was in the best shape of any deer that they had seen. A guy pulled up behind me and pulled out a buck from the back of his Polaris Ranger. The buck hadn't been skinned and had been dead for over four hours. It was 85 degrees outside. That same guy I talked to just shook his head when he saw that. A week later, I picked up 10 pounds of summer sausage, 10 pounds of breakfast sausage, 3 roasts and 15 packages of various steak cuts. That's a lot of meat from a deer that I could just about pick up with one hand alone. I only tell this story to drive home the fact that if you bring in a good, clean animal, you will receive every ounce of meat that you dropped off. It's just that simple. I am fully convinced that I didn't lose a single pound of what I dropped off. Keep up the good work Larry. As with any business, there will always be a few naysayers and some people that are just never happy. As you know, there just isn't anything you can do about it. By the way, have any of you ever seen the taxidermy work that Larry and Rhonda do?? INCREDIBLE!! Some of the best stuff I have ever seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ac guy Report post Posted November 14, 2007 How much did they pay you for that Blake? Just funnin ya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BML Report post Posted November 14, 2007 How much did they pay you for that Blake? Just funnin ya. No worries. I have never met them, but like I said, my brother used to cut meat and do some taxidermy prep work for them. He speaks very highly of them both. As a former customer service manager for many years and now self employed, I get very agitated when problems like this are splattered all over the internet. It's just not the way to solve things, and it's certainly not fair for the business owner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ac guy Report post Posted November 14, 2007 I have no experience with them, so I'm neutral in this conversation. Always good to hear both sides of the story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
