Resources for wolf debates

[trphyhntr]

White people ruin everything

[elecshoc]

Funny part is that wolves have always been in northern az and northern nm. My dad seen them in the 80s in northern nm and I've heard howls in the mid 90s in norhtern az before the reintroduction started. So I believe solid game management with all predators would be the key here. The energy focused on just hating the wolves would probably be better served on keeping lion hunting alive and well in AZ. If we let lion hunting slip now the wolf issue would be the last of the worries here.

[GreyGhost85]

Funny part is that wolves have always been in northern az and northern nm. My dad seen them in the 80s in northern nm and I've heard howls in the mid 90s in norhtern az before the reintroduction started. So I believe solid game management with all predators would be the key here. The energy focused on just hating the wolves would probably be better served on keeping lion hunting alive and well in AZ. If we let lion hunting slip now the wolf issue would be the last of the worries here.

 

Wolves were reintroduced in the mid 90's btw. Probably what you heard. There have always been "sightings" since the eradication in i think the 50's, but there have also been grizzly bear and bigfoot "sightings"

[Xnt]

Thanks all for the replies.

RInella as talked about this on his MeatEater Podcast a few times. From the beginning I have felt like wolves needed to be managed like wildlife. We have hundreds of other species that are under state control, what makes them believe that the second they have responsibility for wolves that is going to change. The answer is that the most outspoken portion of the hunter demgraphic says just that, SSS, smoke a pack a day, etc. Well, that gives them all the ammunition they need to stir up hysteria and tie things up in court.

 

Listened to a few, good call out!

[elecshoc]

Nope this was early 95. Introduction happened in 98. As per the 80s sighting, I'll take my pops word on that over anything else. If you met him i think you would too. That man has spent more time in the outdoors than most and above all can tell the difference between wolf, tote n dog.

[firstcoueswas80]

Wolves are a keystone species. They have a place in the wilderness, but they also have a place on the game and fish's management list. In other words, have wolves, but have a season or some sore if management plan for them.

 

Rule number 1 would be ranchers can shoot on site, whether they are harassing or killing their stock.

[zackcarp]

That's already permitted.

[zackcarp]

http://www.willcoxrangenews.com/news/article_c16fa0a8-158c-11e7-b360-9ba1942c6385.html

 

Here is an interesting article that might have not been seen by most.

[GreyGhost85]

My uncle has probably been hit harder by wolf reintroduction than anyone, being ground zero for the introduction. The impacts and cattle loss are FAR worse than what the wolf lovers want you to think. They constantly give the run around on cattle reimbursement.

Last I heard he has been compensated for exactly 1 cow in probably around 100 killed by wolves. Has photos of a wolf actively killing a cow dog and could do nothing about it. Those animals are NOT wild. They are feral/hybrid dogs and act like it. I have seen a lot of them and they are not afraid of humans because they are still fed by them. There are also a lot more than what they want to admit. There are said to be around 100 of them. About 50/50 collared to non collared. Many people with a lot of knowledge figure there are closer to 500. If there were 100 i guess i've seen half of the population

[Non-Typical Solutions]

 

In a magazine booklet i picked up @G$F it states that the wolf never existed in the current relocation area but roamed further south down in what is now Mexico!

So technically according to their own information it is not a reintroduction but an introduction!

The Diamond A Ranch down the road had a full-time wolf trapper for years, and Monroe Dunagan, who lived about 12 miles south of Animas was also a very active wolf trapper. Dave Dunagan had photos of his dad with lots of wolves and wolf pelts. If you read J. Frank Dobie's biography of Ben Lilly, you will see that he killed a LOT of wolves up in the Gila, pretty much right where they are being reintroduced in New Mexico. Many of the wolves being reintroduced are descended from wolves captured in Mexico because they had already been extirpated from the U.S. by the time the Fish and Wildlife Service began their restoration program, but there were already quite a few in the U.S. in zoos that had been bred in captivity.

 

I was just referring to what their own publications states as far as the Mexican Gray Wolf is concerned and besides Ben, you know as well as I do that bootheel of New Mexico...aka Gadsen Purchase......yep....Mexico!!!

 

As for the wolf population and it effects of the herds of elk in Wyoming and Montana....there must be alot of "fake news" about what those populations are or aren't doing to them!!!

 

Just hope they don't try to bring back the velociraptor........I don't want to sit in my camp and hear that sound ever!!!

[naturebob]

The Govm. lies . there are more wolves then they make it out to be. I am still a believer in SSS. AS long as they are cheating the Rancher.........BOB!

[Red Sparky]

I could use some good conservation and science-based authoritative sources for arguing with the hysterical anti-wolf crowd. I want it to be just that: science based over their emotion. It seems as though Google/YT's censorship really pushes the pro-wolf narrative. I'm specifically looking at the issue of canis lupus occidentalis replacing canis lupus irremotus in the GYE--I have a suspicion that the so-called reclassification that has been done in recent years was to show that the wolves transplanted were the same as the wolves that were present historically. thanks for any info you can provide.

I don't understand the question. You want information to argue with the hysterical anti-wolf crowd? I think most ranchers, hunters are anti-wolf, meaning against the wolf reintroduction. Do you mean pro-wolf, anti-hunter crowd that you want to argue with?

[ThomC]

There is a lot of fake science. Science has learned who butters their bread.

[trphyhntr]

 

 

I could use some good conservation and science-based authoritative sources for arguing with the hysterical anti-wolf crowd. I want it to be just that: science based over their emotion. It seems as though Google/YT's censorship really pushes the pro-wolf narrative. I'm specifically looking at the issue of canis lupus occidentalis replacing canis lupus irremotus in the GYE--I have a suspicion that the so-called reclassification that has been done in recent years was to show that the wolves transplanted were the same as the wolves that were present historically. thanks for any info you can provide.

I don't understand the question. You want information to argue with the hysterical anti-wolf crowd? I think most ranchers, hunters are anti-wolf, meaning against the wolf reintroduction. Do you mean pro-wolf, anti-hunter crowd that you want to argue with?

I thought he was taking a shot at us

[Benbrown]

There is a lot of fake science.

There is even more "conventional wisdom" that is not based on fact, and equally as much or more that is simply based on fairy tales.

 

The OP asked for information and got mostly opinions. Your opinion and $4.50 will get you a nice latte at Starbucks or a six-pack of Lite on sale.