Tent Scandal

[TATAat27]

I dont think setting up a tent or RV in a camp spot you are not occupying is the right thing to do. I understand people cant get off a couple of days early all the time, but thats the way it goes, I think you're just asking for trouble. I think it's ridiculous to think the camp is yours because you've scouted the area or spent more time in the area than the next guy. It's first come first served in my book. If some weekend warrior gets to "my spot" before me, I find another one and try to get to it earlier next year. He made the sacrifice to get there early he deserves the spot period. I wouldn't want to take a few days of my earned vacation and come to find that Joe Schmoe left a raggedy old tent just to save his spot. If your camping, thats a different story, but leaving a tent unoccupied is not camping therefore the 14 days shouldn't apply. Who knows if someone just left the tent there because its a piece of junk and didn't want to pack it back home.

[tucrats]

I know someone who has done just that, however, his son had the junor hunt, his cousin and three friends had the first october hunt and is going on the next hunt himself. So the camp has been empty now and then but has been used by two other hunting parties and one still yet to come. So don't you think some times a case like this would be alright?

 

jimmya

[25-06]

I dont think its the right thing to do.....

[tkknc]

I dont think its the right thing to do.....

 

In unit 33, I had someone put a chain and lock on a forest service gate to make it look like the road was closed. It was not locked but was wrapped around to make it look locked. The lock was not on the weekend before the hunt. Me an my bother went on in to our spot, and someone came to greet us. We asked him if he put the lock on the gate, and he did not answer our question. He said " let's not try and get in each others way". Moron! We we were backpacking in, so we never saw him again. His camp and lock were gone we we came back through.

 

I figure that you are going to see hunters when you camp on public land, and sometimes a lot of campers/hunters. All I ask if you are a jerk do not camp next to me. Do not get me wrong, I have met a lot of nice people hunting.

 

I do not think setting up a camp and camping in it is the right thing to do. Plus your stuff will probably end up missing.

 

Okay I am done ranting.

[out2hunt]

oct 19th to the november hunt? He!! no that is against the rules set forth by the forest service! I don't care if there are five hunting groups with back to back hunts!Those rules are set forth to make sure everyone can enjoy the outdoors. Besides a case like that,I don't mind someone setting up early!!!Play by the rules guys and everyone should have fun. I will be leaving phoenix friday morning around 200am. In spot by 445 and on the ridge I like to glass from by 545,hunt my ars off and head back to pump up the airmattress and eat sleep and do it again the next day!!! Notice I don't put much emphasis on the camp. I'm hedhntn,like my plate says,not camping!!!!!Congrats to all who enjoyed their hunts,sucess or not,and good luck to those of us still holdin tags for upcoming hunts!!Be safe and stay of my ridge!!!LOL!!!LOL!!!Pictures of A BIG BOY are on the way!!!!!

[COUESAZ]

Even if you have a mining claim you have to move your camp after 14 days. But all they say is it has to be moved i believe it does not say were or how far does ? I have no problem with guys setting up a camp a few days before they hunt. What is the difrance between that and being there to scout for a few days before the hunt starts. I go to hunt not to camp. All i need is a place to put my head at night. Other than that i do not see my camp. Do to some health reasons on my part i have opted to be a camp trailer user now so my options of prime spots have gone out the door anyways. But the real trick is to be driving by the other camps as they are just turning on the lanterns and heaters to start the day. When i was a kid we stayed at home and drove out each morning and we still passed dark camps and those just starting to wake up. How many of us have a treestand set up or trail cams out for weeks and weeks at a time. That even breaks the true rules set by the G&F i think. What about those that use licks or even build and maintain a water source that is not natural. It all falls to what you fill is right in your eyes not everyone will agree on the same ways to hunt or save a spot for camping.

 

 

"The camps i hate are those that you will come up on that are right in the middle of prime hunting grounds." I am not talking about those that backpack hunt either but those that will drive right into the m,iddle of the best country and burn a big old camp fire all night and you can hear them from 7 am until they head out of camp at 9 am and fire up the old jeep or toyota truck thet is only firing on four cylenders. and blowing grey white smoke all the up the rest of the trail.

 

You all know the one i am talking about.

[AZP&Y]

I will be leaving phoenix friday morning around 200am. In spot by 445 and on the ridge I like to glass from by 545,hunt my ars off and head back to pump up the airmattress and eat sleep and do it again the next day!!! Notice I don't put much emphasis on the camp. I'm hedhntn,like my plate says,not camping

 

 

That's what I'm talking about- 2 trekking poles and bivy. Forget this major production of a "camp" that plagues the arizona hunter. Ultralight- don't knock it , till you've tried it.

 

AzP&Y

[cmc]

AZP&Y I'd love to hear more on your bivy setup. PM would work if need be. I'd probably do that every year but hunt with friends and family that don't, so I opt to do the trailer thing for those hunts.

 

cmc

[bchoitz]

Whether you like it or not, you can't control what other people will do.

When you scout, scout several area's and keep your options open. We all know that the deer behave differently when their backyard fills with people with guns, and the easier it is to get to an area, the more hunters you will see.

 

Those that pack in are definitely going to find a better, less disturbed, area in which to hunt, and those that camp by the road in their tents or trailers are going to take their chances. Getting P.O'ed over someone else beating you to a spot, or doing what you feel is “not right” isn't going to enhance your hunting experience, and if you can't get over that, then you should probably stay home, or only hunt on private hunting leases.

 

Thank God for our public lands, and the ability to hunt on them. Enjoy your time in the field, and don't fall into the same traps you do at home by getting all worked up about what the other guy is doing. My time off is too precious for that, and I'm sure yours is also.

 

Bret C

 

PS - There are no "prime" hunting spots next to a road, so that is where I will set up camp.

If I am in the camp you had your heart set on, I'm sorry, but drop in and talk, maybe we can work something out.

[out2hunt]

Sweet set up AZ,send me a pm.I'd love to hear how and where you got the setup and idea!!!I might be to primitive when I pack-in.I do no fires,tents.I pack in an ultralight sleeping bag thats good down to 25 degrees.I rely on mre meals and reuse the hot water out of the heating packs for cleaning socks and drawers! Don't get me wrong,I love hunting with good company useing the nicest trailers with all the comforts!!!!!Just feels more like camping than hunting thats all!!!!

[AZP&Y]

Ultralight or Bust – 10 step process for getting your base packweight under 15lbs.

 

 

Going light is a bit like marriage: It’s a multifaceted contract that requires your constant

Commitment. Cheat just a little bit, and your hike (hunt)- and especially your shoulders will suffer. But stick to these rules, and you’ll quickly find a new comfort level with 15 mile days.

 

 

Step 1- Question everything – The ONLY way to make ultralight work is to ditch your standard gear list and your gotta-have coffee press attitude. A checklist tricks you into bringing things you don’t need. Like a massive shelter in the Arizona backcountry. For your next trip, start from scratch and chose only gear that’s absolutely critical for the conditions you’ll face. If in doubt leave it out.

 

 

Step 2- Weigh it all. So many heavy items don’t need to be in the pack. Allow yourself a luxury item (comfortable sleeping pad).

 

 

Step 3-Re think shelter- This is the place to make a major dent- Most Ultralighters use tarps. I’ve chosen the 2.2lb MSR trekker tarp, that uses trekking poles, and can be tied off to any tree and guy’d off using rocks, branches, logs. If the bugs are thick we bring the Mesh insert. We each carry 1 piece of the tent. MSR makes ultralight needle stakes that penetrate even the most rocky desert terrain.

 

 

Step 4: Change your bedding - Old thinking – Choose a sleeping bag for the lowest temps you might encounter. NEW THINKING: Aim for the middle, and wear more clothes if a cold snap hits. If you are hunting hard, you’ll be up early glassing. If you want to reduce more weight , buy a short model pad and use your pack to place under your feet for insulation. I use the Thermarest pro-lite 3. It weighs 20oz. My golite featherbag weighs in at 1lb 10oz – Good down to 40 degrees.

 

 

 

CMC & Out2hunt – I’ll PM you Steps 5-10 and a great base gear list that will guarantee more time hunting and less time setting up and back and forth to glassing spots. In the end you won’t have to worry about all of the other ARMY camps and you’ll have the spot to your self. It may sound like Discovery channel’s survivorman- but it’s not.

 

 

Good luck on you hunts!

 

 

AzP&Y

[Distance]

First off, I’d like everyone to know that I am one of the individuals who were accused of stealing the campsite. I also can give a more accurate account of what happened the day before opening day. My buddy and I showed up Thursday morning between 4 and 5 am. We were pleasantly surprised to find the camp site empty. We set up camp. Later that morning, we ran into Ryan’s father who asked us if we were the owners of the “red colored tent” in the oaks. We said no, however, we were camped there (our tent also happens to have red in it). Ryan’s father then gave us the same account that Ryan typed. He had seen the red tent. He noticed it was old, tattered and abandoned. He decided to camp nearby, leaving the tent there.

Thursday evening, we were walking back to camp and were confronted by an older man and his son while we walked past their pop-up trailer. He wanted to know where we were camped and what happened to his tent. We told him where we were camped and that we never saw any tent, even though we know that Ryan’s father had seen one there the night before we got there. We simply told them that there wasn’t a tent and that they were more than welcome to search our vehicle and campsite. After threatening us he’d call the ranger and sheriff, we asked him if he were accusing us of stealing his tent, and if so, he’d better be able to prove it. We then encouraged him to get LE involved, as we’d tell them the same thing. We were lectured on how he’d been hunting here 20 years (true I am sure) and how hunters should “trust and respect” each other. We whole heartedly agreed and even offered to share the site with them, due to its large size. They declined. We talked about hunting, conservation and family for awhile, and then parted ways. They let us know they’d be walking through the campsite early the next morning.

That evening, while glassing over Wood’s tank, we heard them coming down a canyon. They had harvested a small 2x2. The young man was exhausted and my friend and I dragged the deer out the ¾ miles to where they were parked. On the way out, they gave us some tips on where to glass the next morning. They were both polite and friendly, as were we.

Now on the “ethical” part of the discussion:

It is my opinion that simply dumping a tattered tent on a camp site does not constitute “occupying” it on a first come, first serve basis. By definition, in this context, occupying means to “live in”. According to Ryan’s father, the tent (only a tent, not a camp) was abandoned, tattered and empty. They weren’t even going to use the tent, evident by the pop up trailer they brought to sleep in. They openly admitted, per Ryan’s post, to have simply come up 4 days ago and dumping the tent. The 14-day max camping rule doesn’t apply if you aren’t there to “camp” in it. You are not occupying, but trying to “reserve” the spot. I speak from experience. In the same unit, 2 years prior, we had Muley tags. We found a nice spot. After arriving early a few days before the hunt, we discovered a tent and table there. As it turns out, a guy who hunted first week left the tent site up so that his brother-in-law could use it 3 days later during the second week’s hunt. Fair? Hmmm….don’t think so. We ended up camping out in the middle of the brush, leaving the campsite undisturbed. If we would have found the same this time, we would have done the exact same thing. After all, we would have concluded that they would be showing up in the morning anyways and why pick a fight? We did nothing wrong.

As far as doing our homework, we had scouted pre season 4 times at that spot and glassed several bucks. Our homework included GPS, satellite maps and a lot of reading. My buddy even bow hunted that exact same area with his son a few months before.

I find it hypocritical to lecture other hunters on trust, when you yourself were taking advantage of other hunters by trying to pull an underhanded scheme like that. I commend Ryan’s father for doing what he did. I still don’t feel guilty for camping at a site that we found empty, even after being confronted and subtly accused. As far as the tent, it sounded like it blew away or someone stole it. You can’t complain when you lose your stuff when you leave it in the desert for almost a week. Just a stupid thing to do.

Just my .02.

 

Ryan, tell your dad I spoke to his friend at work. Here is a picture of the buck I pulled out Tuesday night. We glassed from where you told us, but the wind was gusting all day to the point we couldn't stand up. We packed up camp and hunted off of the road on the way out. Kicked him out of a thicket. 200 + yd shot with my 300 RUM:

 

 

 

 

[COUESAZ]

VBery nice solid 4x4 coues buck man. Thanks for your side of the story. There are always two sides. It sounds like you were in the right and even beleived in you self enough to tell them to search your stuff for there tent. That alone speaks alot of words.

[CouesUnlimited]

First off, I’d like everyone to know that I am one of the individuals who were accused of stealing the campsite. I also can give a more accurate account of what happened the day before opening day. My buddy and I showed up Thursday morning between 4 and 5 am. We were pleasantly surprised to find the camp site empty. We set up camp. Later that morning, we ran into Ryan’s father who asked us if we were the owners of the “red colored tent” in the oaks. We said no, however, we were camped there (our tent also happens to have red in it). Ryan’s father then gave us the same account that Ryan typed. He had seen the red tent. He noticed it was old, tattered and abandoned. He decided to camp nearby, leaving the tent there.

Thursday evening, we were walking back to camp and were confronted by an older man and his son while we walked past their pop-up trailer. He wanted to know where we were camped and what happened to his tent. We told him where we were camped and that we never saw any tent, even though we know that Ryan’s father had seen one there the night before we got there. We simply told them that there wasn’t a tent and that they were more than welcome to search our vehicle and campsite. After threatening us he’d call the ranger and sheriff, we asked him if he were accusing us of stealing his tent, and if so, he’d better be able to prove it. We then encouraged him to get LE involved, as we’d tell them the same thing. We were lectured on how he’d been hunting here 20 years (true I am sure) and how hunters should “trust and respect” each other. We whole heartedly agreed and even offered to share the site with them, due to its large size. They declined. We talked about hunting, conservation and family for awhile, and then parted ways. They let us know they’d be walking through the campsite early the next morning.

That evening, while glassing over Wood’s tank, we heard them coming down a canyon. They had harvested a small 2x2. The young man was exhausted and my friend and I dragged the deer out the ¾ miles to where they were parked. On the way out, they gave us some tips on where to glass the next morning. They were both polite and friendly, as were we.

Now on the “ethical” part of the discussion:

It is my opinion that simply dumping a tattered tent on a camp site does not constitute “occupying” it on a first come, first serve basis. By definition, in this context, occupying means to “live in”. According to Ryan’s father, the tent (only a tent, not a camp) was abandoned, tattered and empty. They weren’t even going to use the tent, evident by the pop up trailer they brought to sleep in. They openly admitted, per Ryan’s post, to have simply come up 4 days ago and dumping the tent. The 14-day max camping rule doesn’t apply if you aren’t there to “camp” in it. You are not occupying, but trying to “reserve” the spot. I speak from experience. In the same unit, 2 years prior, we had Muley tags. We found a nice spot. After arriving early a few days before the hunt, we discovered a tent and table there. As it turns out, a guy who hunted first week left the tent site up so that his brother-in-law could use it 3 days later during the second week’s hunt. Fair? Hmmm….don’t think so. We ended up camping out in the middle of the brush, leaving the campsite undisturbed. If we would have found the same this time, we would have done the exact same thing. After all, we would have concluded that they would be showing up in the morning anyways and why pick a fight? We did nothing wrong.

As far as doing our homework, we had scouted pre season 4 times at that spot and glassed several bucks. Our homework included GPS, satellite maps and a lot of reading. My buddy even bow hunted that exact same area with his son a few months before.

I find it hypocritical to lecture other hunters on trust, when you yourself were taking advantage of other hunters by trying to pull an underhanded scheme like that. I commend Ryan’s father for doing what he did. I still don’t feel guilty for camping at a site that we found empty, even after being confronted and subtly accused. As far as the tent, it sounded like it blew away or someone stole it. You can’t complain when you lose your stuff when you leave it in the desert for almost a week. Just a stupid thing to do.

Just my .02.

 

Ryan, tell your dad I spoke to his friend at work. Here is a picture of the buck I pulled out Tuesday night. We glassed from where you told us, but the wind was gusting all day to the point we couldn't stand up. We packed up camp and hunted off of the road on the way out. Kicked him out of a thicket. 200 + yd shot with my 300 RUM:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Congrats on the deer, the computer here at work wouldn't allow the pics to upload, but it sound like a nice deer. On the second day my dad's friend was walking back to meet up with us and jumped a buck but I wasn't with him and he didn't have a tag. I will be looking foward to see the pics of the deer when I get home. As far as the whole tent thing goes, I just wanted to get some other hunters opinions on reserving spots, I didn't want to cause any troubles or get any specifics. Those guys had no business putting that tent up in the first place, then to threaten you guys on calling the police was even more obsurd. Well congrats again on the deer and will be looking forward to seeing the deer. My dad says thank for the pics.

 

Ryan

[Distance]

Congrats on the deer, the computer here at work wouldn't allow the pics to upload, but it sound like a nice deer. On the second day my dad's friend was walking back to meet up with us and jumped a buck but I wasn't with him and he didn't have a tag. I will be looking foward to see the pics of the deer when I get home. As far as the whole tent thing goes, I just wanted to get some other hunters opinions on reserving spots, I didn't want to cause any troubles or get any specifics. Those guys had no business putting that tent up in the first place, then to threaten you guys on calling the police was even more obsurd. Well congrats again on the deer and will be looking forward to seeing the deer. My dad says thank for the pics.

 

Ryan

Thanks Ryan,

We didn't think you were taking sides at all. I'm glad that you brought this up, because I think it is a good that we as a hunting community deal with the issue. It has brought a lot to light, and hopefully, will decrease this kind of behaviour. Honestly, I really don't think it will.

One thing I know, it isn't where you camp that makes you a good hunter. I really enjoyed meeting you guys and hope to see you out there again.