Bullet Question

[.270]

i love threads like this. so is a ford or a chevy better? so why won't a 125 gr bullet kill a muley? i killed one with a 100 gr this year. he seemd to die purty dead. coues deer are about the size a hefty labrador retriever. really. any well made .308 caliber bullet will zip right through one. eleanor o'connot shot an elephant with an '06. she was using 220 gr solids, but any gun that will kill an elephant oughta be ok for coues, in any caliber. i use 165's exclusively in any .30 cal. just because it works well in '06 and .300 mag and i don't have to keep a buncha different bullets around. but a 125 is ok. they make 100 gr .308 diameter bullets. and as far as barrel twist, you would probably need a little slower twist, not faster, for the shorter bullet be optimal. just a little bit too. most of the time you speed up the twist for longer bullets, in a given caliber. but any '06 should be able to shoot about bullet you want, with decent accuracy. i like big bullets in big calibers and little bullets in little calibers and in between bullets in in between calibers. or you can forget all this whole debate and just get a .270. because they are far superior to all them other goofy calibers. Lark.

[Hooked_on_Coues]

Lark,

 

To shoot a 125 in an '06 I would probably go to a 1in12" twist. Most of them are going to be 1in10" as a standard.

 

Lighter bullets need to spin more; longer, heavier bullets stabilize better and need less spin.

[.270]

ok, here is your math lesson for the day, 1 in 10" is a faster twist than 1 in 12". dang kids. Lark.

[Outdoor Writer]

Lark,

 

To shoot a 125 in an '06 I would probably go to a 1in12" twist. Most of them are going to be 1in10" as a standard.

 

Lighter bullets need to spin more; longer, heavier bullets stabilize better and need less spin.

 

A 1 in 10 is a faster twist than 1 in 12. IOW, the bullet makes a full revolution for every 10 inches rather than 12 inches. Thus, it's spinning faster -- more revolutions -- before it exits a barrel of the same length. -TONY

 

Edited: Whoops, Lark must have been replying at the same time.

[.270]

years ago remington came out with a round called the .244, to compete with the really successfull .243 win. well, they had the twist too "slow" to stabilize a 100 gr bullet well. shot smaller bullets great. wouldn't shoot 100's for nothin'. so after some real poor sales, they "sped" up the twist so it would stabilize the longer bullet and renamed the same cartidge the 6mm. (sorry, i don't recall off hand what the rates were, but i can dang sure find em if i need to). i might be a little wrong on this one, but they also made a .280, and then renamed it the 7mm express, and then went back to the .280, and i believe that was all about speeding up the twist and tinkering with the powder charge so it would shoot bigger bullets. and then going back to .280 because it didn't shoot big bullets fast enough for it to work well. sorta like turnin' it into a 7mm/08. go by an old 6.5x55 swedish mauser. fine rifle, excellent action. then try to shoot some say 100 gr, or 120gr bullets. the won't hit well at all, because the twist is real quick and is set up to shoot 165 gr military ammo. i have an old .250/300. shoots like an sob with 75's, 85's and 100's. 117's and 125's will keyhole, because the twist is too slow. sierra makes 75 gr .22 caliber bullets. says right on the box to use a fast twist, like in a m-16, because the slower twist popular in civilian rifles won't stabilize them. you say a 1 in 12 is faster? ok, here's a formula for you to use. you 24 have inches of lands. with a 1 in 12 the bullet will spin 2 times in that distance. with a 1 in 10 the bullet will spin 2.4 times in the same distance. 1 in 10 is faster. anyway, i've done entirely too much math and reccolection for one day and now my head hurts. Lark.

[Hooked_on_Coues]

Ok, my bad I said that all wrong. What I started with is right then I got off and said it backwards.

 

My point is a 1in12 will stabilize a 125 better than a 1in10.

 

Thank you for keeping me honest and I hate it when you are right. (you too Tony)

[Huntn coues]

Now if we could just get Lark to admit he's wrong about the .270 ........

 

 

[.270]

hooked on coues, you need to read up on things a little. as a general rule, longer bullets require a faster twist, not slower. shorter bullets usually are more accurate with a slower twist. some calibers will shoot about anything well with one particualr twist. others won't. there are some variables, the bullet diameter, length, weight, BC, etc, all comes into play for optimum twist. but generally, and there are some guys here who can back this up, in a given caliber, longer bullets require faster twists than shorter bullets. don't know where or how you got your info, but it ain't right and if you go buying a slow twist barrel to shoot long bullets with, you're probably gonna sad about it. and .270's are the best. it's just a law of nature. Lark.

[.270]

here is a real handy table to use for barrel twist. if you'll look closely, heavier bullets usually require faster twists than lighter bullets. they never require slower twists. unless these guys are wrong too. also, if you note, the .270 just needs one twist rate, 10", for all bullets. just one more reason, i mean other than my dad says so, that it is the greatest round ever. Lark.

 

http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/barreltwist.html

[Hooked_on_Coues]

hooked on coues, you need to read up on things a little. as a general rule, longer bullets require a faster twist, not slower. shorter bullets usually are more accurate with a slower twist. some calibers will shoot about anything well with one particualr twist. others won't. there are some variables, the bullet diameter, length, weight, BC, etc, all comes into play for optimum twist. but generally, and there are some guys here who can back this up, in a given caliber, longer bullets require faster twists than shorter bullets. don't know where or how you got your info, but it ain't right and if you go buying a slow twist barrel to shoot long bullets with, you're probably gonna sad about it. and .270's are the best. it's just a law of nature. Lark.

 

Hence my statement "a 1in12 {slower twist}will stabilize a 125 {short bullet in .308} better than a 1in 10{faster twist}"

 

Stop trying to confuse me, its too easily done.

 

THe only thing that would make the 270 best is if it lost about .006 around its middle. But I understand it is a middle-aged round and carries a little too much girth. Take one a whip it into shape and you get a .264. Now you have something.......

[.270]

here's your quote. make up your mind.

 

Lark,

 

To shoot a 125 in an '06 I would probably go to a 1in12" twist. Most of them are going to be 1in10" as a standard.

 

Lighter bullets need to spin more; longer, heavier bullets stabilize better and need less spin.

 

Lark.

[Hooked_on_Coues]

OK Lark, you are getting to sound like my wife....

 

YES! I WAS WRONG! I said that about four posts back.

 

You cannot use a quote after I admit I was bad. Poor manners. Of course I probably should apologize for referring to your .270 as middle aged and overweight.....

[.270]

yeah, but you left out the good part, as in, "LARK WAS RIGHT". seems like at one time i assumed the same thing, until got learned different. barrel twist can be real critical, and .30 cal is about the worst one, as far being twist sensitive. a friend used to shoot 150's from an old 721 remington all the time. he loaded some 110's to shoot jackrabbits with and couldn't hit anything. figured it would just be a little high. took it to the range and it was about 4 inches low and 3 inches to the left and not a very tight group. shot some 150's and tore up the bullseye. you'd assume the 110's would at least be high. most of the time you can shoot several different weights from a given barrel and be ok, with .30 caliber, you might not be able to. .264 is another one that is real twist sensitive. you can usually do ok up to 130 gr, go any heavier, and you may have a hard time getting a group. most .264's are 1 in 9. but a 1 in 8 works a lot better for the heavier bullets. just one more reason that the .270 is the best. Lark.

[Hooked_on_Coues]

Ok, my bad I said that all wrong. What I started with is right then I got off and said it backwards.

 

My point is a 1in12 will stabilize a 125 better than a 1in10.

 

Thank you for keeping me honest and I hate it when you are right. (you too Tony)

 

LArk,

 

You are like my wife. I have to tell her multiple times when she is right too.....

 

jeesh

 

I shoot 140's with a 1in 8 outa the 6.5x284 Cooper. It seems to be one of those guns that shoots everything well, just some things GREAT. So I have been fortunate in not having to try to figure out the little things.