Game and Fish Comment Periods

[bojangles]

Many years ago my dad took me hunting to a very southern part of New Mexico to what at the time was the Slover Ranch.

This is a very remote part of nowhere!!!

 

We were friends with the rancher and they let us bunk at their ranch shack, brewed us hot chocolate early morning before we headed out and then the wife asked us kindly to please don't shoot the deer that we would certainly bump into before we got away from the ranch house.

 

We said absolutely and went about our hunt.....bumping into the deer she mentioned and then never seeing another deer the whole rest of the day!!!

 

Respect is something that is very rare it seems with all of the above mentioned hunting techniques and methods. If respect was a part of a person's every day life the answers are almost always pretty clear cut and not that hard to get!

 

Do I want more laws??? Not really.......

 

Is there something to be said for having respect for other people and their beliefs.......every day.

 

Does having respect mean that we can't fight for what we think is right.........not necessarily.

 

I have elk and deer beating and eating the crap out of my trees on my property and I want them gone.....but inside city limits, with a building on the acreage........I have not been able to have a tag in my hand and any law that would allow me to take either of those species during a hunt

 

 

Good thoughts.

 

Respect is everything.

 

I'll give you that all day long. Most of these altercations result in disrespect of someone's property or values.

[COA]

Although we act in the parameters of the law homeowners do feel attached to the animals they illegally feed. Some unkowningly but when they see randy the deer with an arrow in its side on their property seeking safety they cant help but be human and feel for the animal. Game and fish doesnt want to make the front paper on this topic and neither does any hunter. Im all for a buffer maybe 439 yds If you an arrow a deer and it goes a 1/4 mile you can hang it up and go tonthe thinder stick for help.

[bojangles]

Although we act in the parameters of the law homeowners do feel attached to the animals they illegally feed. Some unkowningly but when they see randy the deer with an arrow in its side on their property seeking safety they cant help but be human and feel for the animal. Game and fish doesnt want to make the front paper on this topic and neither does any hunter. Im all for a buffer maybe 439 yds If you an arrow a deer and it goes a 1/4 mile you can hang it up and go tonthe thinder stick for help.

 

 

here's the thing, though. you rarely see bucks in town. these are usually not hand fed pets, but wild animals. so, by nature, you won't shoot someones pet, because usually only does are pets. Of course, this is not so for elk, as they have cow tags, but i don't think there are many people out there that have "pet" cow elk, but i do know a few.

 

What i think you guys mis-understand, because most of you are not from here, is that many of the homeowners up here hunt on their own lots, or behind their houses. And when i say many, i mean there is an awful lot of them. I know a guy that let 4 bucks be killed on his own lot, most of them by junior hunters. A kid killed a 105" off this lot this winter.

 

This is widely accepted in this neck of the woods. It is a COMMON practice. But because many of you don't live here, you have developed a sense of paranoia about what goes on.

 

let's put it this way, a lot of guys hunt in the greenbelt, and EVERYBODY wants an elk steak, whether they hunt or not. You're hard pressed to get a PETA loving vegan to turn down an elk steak up here.

 

I think you're fears are unfounded, and encroach on the lives of the people who have lived here for years. yeah, there's the occasional portals poacher, and that needs to be dealt with, but not at the expense of everyone else who puts tree stands in/near their yards.

 

i was thinking of the areas that would be banned from hunting that people have hunted for generations.

 

here's a sample list of places the locals have hunted for generations that would be illegal

 

-bradshaw tank

-pine creek canyon

-dripping springs

-all of strawberry mountain and surrounding areas (most of your early archery bull hunting takes place here. It's the best 22n has to offer, and you can kiss this goodbye if that law passes.)

-upper round valley tank, one of the best elk tanks in payson area for an archery cow tag. that tank has put a lot of roasts in the pot. it would be a shame to lose that.

-granite dells

-peach orchard, and peach orchard tank

-monument peak

-mayfield canyon, again, you would be robbing dinners from locals by banning hunting in mayfield canyon. it's another great archery cow tag area. this canyon has served dinner for many of the people of payson for years.

-the better portions of round valley

-lion springs

-much of the canyons off hardscrabble road, and the adjacent tanks.

-the first american gulch tank, which is javelina central headquarters

 

 

you have to think about what you are proposing here. i'm going to go out on a limb, and say that greater than 50 percent of the archery tags in unit 22 are filled in these locations.

 

 

i can't even begin to list the friends i have that have hunted these locations for generations, without incident.

[Flatlander]

1) I have formed my opinions from my experience hunting for 20+ years. They were not dreamt up in some paranoid delirium sitting on the couch.

 

2) Save your holier than thou because you live in Payson condescension. I don't live there and never have. I have lived in over a dozen western towns with populations ranging from 5,000 to 5 million. They all have rednecks and they all have hippies.

 

3) There are a total of 70 archery cow tags in unit 22. I doubt that half of them are local. So we are talking about fewer than 35 people being impacted by your examples, success on that hunt is less than 20%. So of the 35 locals who cannot hunt their personal piece of property which is less than 400 yds wide less than 7 of them were ever going t kill an elk anyway. This is a very small sacrifice for a potentially huge risk.

 

4) Your description of areas that would be closed is not accurate. Perhaps portions of them, where they are close to homes. However, to generalize the entire area as being closed is an overstatement.

[bojangles]

1) I have formed my opinions from my experience hunting for 20+ years. They were not dreamt up in some paranoid delirium sitting on the couch.

 

2) Save your holier than thou because you live in Payson condescension. I don't live there and never have. I have lived in over a dozen western towns with populations ranging from 5,000 to 5 million. They all have rednecks and they all have hippies.

 

3) There are a total of 70 archery cow tags in unit 22. I doubt that half of them are local. So we are talking about fewer than 35 people being impacted by your examples, success on that hunt is less than 20%. So of the 35 locals who cannot hunt their personal piece of property which is less than 400 yds wide less than 7 of them were ever going t kill an elk anyway. This is a very small sacrifice for a potentially huge risk.

 

4) Your description of areas that would be closed is not accurate. Perhaps portions of them, where they are close to homes. However, to generalize the entire area as being closed is an overstatement.

 

 

1) ok. i'll buy that. but i can say the same. but my point here is that we do live in hunting culture, and people are not often offended at the sight of dead animals. also, my point here is not to say that you are paraniod per se, but that people in general are more accepting of hunting practices that you may realize. please don't take personal offense. im ultimately on your side here.

 

2), i'm not really holier than thou, or even a great hunter. I just want to point out that a lot of guys really aren't hard core, don't want to go way out to get an elk or deer steak. and i respect that as much as a back country longbow hunter, like aron snyder. but beer belly billy bob should get his day too.

 

3) you're right, those guys really aren't that important. i guess the backyard deer hunters aren't either.

 

4) maybe it's been a while since you've seen where houses have popped up. yes, the back tip of mayfield and some of the further reaches of pine creek could still be hunted, and maybe if you got out a rangefinder and stepped it off, you could even find a legal tree to put a stand on on strawberry mountain, but by and large these traditional areas would be off limits to people who have hunted here for years.

 

once again, i'd like to point out that urban hunting is a common practice throughout the united states, and has helped, and not hurt the image of hunting and hunters overall, i believe. i don't think that we would be an exception to that.

 

Can you offer an example of where legal urban archery hunting has hindered hunting privileges, or been detrimental to the practice of hunting? If you can, i'd like to hear about it.

[COA]

Do you live in the portals?

[bojangles]

Do you live in the portals?

 

no, but i work there often. i'm in there several times a month. not too long ago i talked to a guy who's neigbor found an arrow stuck in the side of his house.

 

that's a shame. i could only hang my head. the problem is real. dudes sneak in there and shoot out of their trucks. yes, they feed the deer in there, but there's no excuse for that behavior.

[Flatlander]

 

 

1) I have formed my opinions from my experience hunting for 20+ years. They were not dreamt up in some paranoid delirium sitting on the couch.

 

2) Save your holier than thou because you live in Payson condescension. I don't live there and never have. I have lived in over a dozen western towns with populations ranging from 5,000 to 5 million. They all have rednecks and they all have hippies.

 

3) There are a total of 70 archery cow tags in unit 22. I doubt that half of them are local. So we are talking about fewer than 35 people being impacted by your examples, success on that hunt is less than 20%. So of the 35 locals who cannot hunt their personal piece of property which is less than 400 yds wide less than 7 of them were ever going t kill an elk anyway. This is a very small sacrifice for a potentially huge risk.

 

4) Your description of areas that would be closed is not accurate. Perhaps portions of them, where they are close to homes. However, to generalize the entire area as being closed is an overstatement.

 

1) ok. i'll buy that. but i can say the same. but my point here is that we do live in hunting culture, and people are not often offended at the sight of dead animals. also, my point here is not to say that you are paraniod per se, but that people in general are more accepting of hunting practices that you may realize. please don't take personal offense. im ultimately on your side here.

 

2), i'm not really holier than thou, or even a great hunter. I just want to point out that a lot of guys really aren't hard core, don't want to go way out to get an elk or deer steak. and i respect that as much as a back country longbow hunter, like aron snyder. but beer belly billy bob should get his day too.

 

3) you're right, those guys really aren't that important. I guess the backyard deer hunters aren't either.

 

4) maybe it's been a while since you've seen where houses have popped up. yes, the back tip of mayfield and some of the further reaches of pine creek could still be hunted, and maybe if you got out a rangefinder and stepped it off, you could even find a legal tree to put a stand on on strawberry mountain, but by and large these traditional areas would be off limits to people who have hunted here for years.

 

once again, i'd like to point out that urban hunting is a common practice throughout the united states, and has helped, and not hurt the image of hunting and hunters overall, i believe. i don't think that we would be an exception to that.

 

Can you offer an example of where legal urban archery hunting has hindered hunting privileges, or been detrimental to the practice of hunting? If you can, i'd like to hear about it.

Yes in unit 19A the antelope hunt used to allow hunters to hunt West of Robert Road. The proximity to homes after development ultimately lead to conflicts which got the area closed to archery antelope hunting. I was there the last year it was open. I chased a monster buck. I also oissed off a lot of homeowners and they told of me as much. I should have been better.

 

I really think your beef is with development, not hunting. Ultimately, as habitat is lost or encroached, these conflicts arise. It's the world we live in.

[bojangles]

 

 

 

1) I have formed my opinions from my experience hunting for 20+ years. They were not dreamt up in some paranoid delirium sitting on the couch.

 

2) Save your holier than thou because you live in Payson condescension. I don't live there and never have. I have lived in over a dozen western towns with populations ranging from 5,000 to 5 million. They all have rednecks and they all have hippies.

 

3) There are a total of 70 archery cow tags in unit 22. I doubt that half of them are local. So we are talking about fewer than 35 people being impacted by your examples, success on that hunt is less than 20%. So of the 35 locals who cannot hunt their personal piece of property which is less than 400 yds wide less than 7 of them were ever going t kill an elk anyway. This is a very small sacrifice for a potentially huge risk.

 

4) Your description of areas that would be closed is not accurate. Perhaps portions of them, where they are close to homes. However, to generalize the entire area as being closed is an overstatement.

 

1) ok. i'll buy that. but i can say the same. but my point here is that we do live in hunting culture, and people are not often offended at the sight of dead animals. also, my point here is not to say that you are paraniod per se, but that people in general are more accepting of hunting practices that you may realize. please don't take personal offense. im ultimately on your side here.

 

2), i'm not really holier than thou, or even a great hunter. I just want to point out that a lot of guys really aren't hard core, don't want to go way out to get an elk or deer steak. and i respect that as much as a back country longbow hunter, like aron snyder. but beer belly billy bob should get his day too.

 

3) you're right, those guys really aren't that important. I guess the backyard deer hunters aren't either.

 

4) maybe it's been a while since you've seen where houses have popped up. yes, the back tip of mayfield and some of the further reaches of pine creek could still be hunted, and maybe if you got out a rangefinder and stepped it off, you could even find a legal tree to put a stand on on strawberry mountain, but by and large these traditional areas would be off limits to people who have hunted here for years.

 

once again, i'd like to point out that urban hunting is a common practice throughout the united states, and has helped, and not hurt the image of hunting and hunters overall, i believe. i don't think that we would be an exception to that.

 

Can you offer an example of where legal urban archery hunting has hindered hunting privileges, or been detrimental to the practice of hunting? If you can, i'd like to hear about it.

Yes in unit 19A the antelope hunt used to allow hunters to hunt West of Robert Road. The proximity to homes after development ultimately lead to conflicts which got the area closed to archery antelope hunting. I was there the last year it was open. I chased a monster buck. I also oissed off a lot of homeowners and they told of me as much. I should have been better.

 

I really think your beef is with development, not hunting. Ultimately, as habitat is lost or encroached, these conflicts arise. It's the world we live in.

Well, that's a shame. Was it public land?

[bojangles]

well, i think solutions can be found, if we put our heads together, that can provide viable, realistic solutions for interested parties. that's why i like discussions like this.

 

we can explore angles to make solutions without squashing hunting privileges and trampling homeowners rights.

 

solutions are out there, we just have to find them and create them. if you take a walk around any of the areas i mentioned, you'd notice the amount of trail cameras, ground blinds and tree stands are phenomenal. that means a lot of guys are using these areas. as a service tech in the rim country, i can't help but notice the amount of people who hunt on their own lots.

 

i don't want to see these guys lose that. I have a stand that is less then a 1/4 mile from a house that i call my "after work" stand, it's where i hunt when i get off work early. I don't want to lose that either. It's a great place, and a lot of guys are in there hunting right along side of me. it's the way it should be. i met a homeowner who helped G&F search for a deer that a kid had shot that jumped the fence into pine. They found the deer, and helped the kid recover it w/out trespassing. It was good. The homeowner was glad to help the kid recover the deer. That's the way it should be, and i hope that's the way it can stay.

 

i don't want to lose these privileges by them being outlawed, or, by irresponsibility.

 

i think if we put our heads together we can come up with something.

 

it's a good conversation.

 

thanks for participating.

[wildwoody]

Wait, you can road hunt in the portals ???

[Flatlander]

Very good discussion. I hope you share everything you just said at a public input meeting.

[DesertBull]

The sad thing is they pass these new rules all the time and never enforce them. They know the majority will abide and they live with the few that wont. Only the hunters with enough sense to obey are hurt.

 

There are many east coast, liberally infected, cities full PETAphiles that have urban bowhunting. In backyards, greenbelts and city/state parks.

 

The urbanites love their organic kale and chia seeds more than they love bambi.

[654321]

The 1/4 mile law only applies if you don't have permission to discharge a firearm or soon to be bow and arrow from the occupied structures owner. If there are that many locals that hunt that close to their homes just get permission to discharge your weapon, then your fine.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Post signs for the deer to not enter 1/4 mile zone???