Commission Decisions?

[muskrat]

Well? Comments?

[falls]

Muskrat,

I havent heard what came about at the Safford meeting. Got any details?

Reading the "solutions" they had proposed on their website, there were three that I thought had merit

- Eliminating or revising the internet draw process

- the commercial and non commercial tags

and...

- creating a seperate tag pool for non res applicants (which was a suggestion I had emailed to them)

[DesertBull]

No more online apps

No caps on NR. All have equal chance to draw tags.

Conservation bonus points to be awarded

Raising the fees

You must buy a license to apply for a tag

 

In other words, we took it in the shorts, while Taulman "The Elk Pimp", takes it to the bank.

[muskrat]

I also have the survey results in .pdf format if anyone wants them. There seems to be quite a disconnect between the survey results and the Commission's decisions...... shoot me an e-mail at desrtrat@cenazcom for the survey results

 

From Bowsite.com

 

The meeting was over around 9:00 p.m.

 

14. The online draw process has been eliminated for the next year only and the commission is requiring the department to find a way to bring it back at the end of one year.

 

15a. The loyalty bonus point passed with five years of consecutive application. The bonus point pass percentage was raised to 20%.

 

15b. All big game applicants will have to buy a license to apply for a permit subject to further examination by the AG?s office.

 

15c. The conservation bonus point will go forward in this format: 48hrs earns one bonus point, you may earn unlimited bonus points, points are lost when drawn, you may only earn one point per year.

 

15d. There will be a $10 administrative fee charged for each bonus point you earn.

 

15e. The 10% set-aside idea was scrapped.

 

15f. The 90% non-commercial, 10% commercial idea was scrapped. A change was made that will apply only to sheep and will make all sheep permits non-commercial and outlaw the sale of sheep parts. 90% of sheep tags will go to residents and 10 to 15 percent may be set-aside for non-residents. The non-resident set-aside may be adjusted up or down depending upon how the state can justify the impact made by non-residents upon resident hunt opportunities. This is also subject to examination by the AG?s office. This seems to be a trial run?

 

15g. Non-commercial only, for sheep only.

 

16. Yes, the smart plan was chosen. Junior hunters will have no fee increases

 

**************

 

All caps or % have been done away with except for sheep, that includes buffalo. Residents and non-residents will have the same opportunity to draw all species except for sheep. Sheep was the only species that they made non-commercial and banned the sale of parts. The 10% of tags being set-aside for non-resident sheep are non-commercial just the same as the resident tags.

 

George Taulman sent his lawyer, Jim Scaratino to attend the commission meeting yesterday and address the commission. He filled out a blue speaker's card for agenda item 14f. What he had to tell the commission was basically none of your cap ideas will work and wanted to invite the commission to negotiate with USO on how they would control non-resident tags in the future. One must wonder if our position was so week, why did it take them 7 years to win the case? Why would Taulman send him if our position is weak? Why wouldn't they just sue us again if they didn't like the new regulations? I thought it was an attempt to intimidate or scare the commission.

 

On a brighter note, let me explain what agenda item 16, "smart pricing" is. These fee increases for permits are based more on the value of the animal. They have added two new categories. They have split deer and bull elk into two categories, "deer" and "premium deer (N. of the Colorado)". "Bull elk" and "premium bull elk (early bull)". On an average the resident to non-resident pricing will be 1/9 or non-residents being nine times higher than residents. This seems to be consistent with other states nation wide. I will give you some examples of what the new pricing may be. Keep in mind these prices are cap prices submitted to the governor and legislature, the actual prices will be lower.

 

Deer: res. $50, non-resident $200

 

Premium deer: res. $150, non-resident $1200

 

Bull elk: res. $150, non-resident $775

 

Premium bull elk: res. $350, non-resident $3200

 

Sheep: res. $335, non-res. $3000

 

Bull buffalo: res. $1000, non-res. $5000

 

Antelope: res. $90, non-res. $630

 

What will probably happen is that resident fees will be below the stated caps and non-resident fees will be very close to the stated caps.

 

 

 

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Edited January 1, 1970 by muskrat

[Dan H]

Well good atleast they will hit em in the pocket book. That will put a hurt on a large percentage of the number of NR applicants.

 

I have 11 bonus points for Antelope maybe next year is a given for the my 1st choice.

 

Nice Post Desrt Rat

Thanks, Dan

[.270]

taulman actually sent his weasel/skunk/snake, i mean attorney to the meeting and wanted to negotiate the deal with azgfd? i can't believe they didn't toss him from the mtg. no matter what taulman and his tick, leach, parasite think, this settlement isn't to give uso an edge. this settlement is so that, supposedly, the entire U.S. population has an even chance at our tags. for him to think that uso has the right to any input in this process is pure BS. the very fact that the commission even listened to the guy pisses me off to no end. uso's part is done. it's between whatever Arizona decides and the judge. uso has to take whatever that decision is and live with it. i can't believe his hired gun had that kinda gall to ask to be a part of it. and ya know what, the commission and shroufe will probably cave and let him be in on the final decision. the $10 per bonus point deal. i have a pile o' sheep points. do i have to send em $10 for every one of em now? what's the deal there? anyway, another sad day in the annals of resident Az. hunting. get used to bendin' over frontwards. and do not give any uso employee an even break. wonder if it it'd be legal to picket their camps this fall? sounds like a good thing for guys with no tags to do. put up a big ol' picket line. protest signs and everything. later, Lark.

[Red Rabbit]

Lark,

I'm under the impression that the $10 fee is for covering the conservation bonus point's paperwork. The fees noted are the max amount/cap, and hopefully will be lower. I do not want to see hunting become an avocation for the financially well-to-do.

 

I would like to know why the 90/10 nonC/Commercial tag split was not pursued by G&F. There has been speculation that it was due to personal liability that could be cast upon the commissioners.

 

Doug/RedRabbit

[.270]

red, thanks for the info on the bonus points. you're right about this becoming a rich man's game. won't be long and permits will all go the highest bidder, it seems. it's real simple why they opted for what they did. it's the easiest. these guys on the commission ain't real smart. they're small time politicians, pure and simple. like to do the LL Bean deal on a trout stream every once in awhile and spend a lotta time at country clubs. only one that is even a zit of a hunter is golightly, and his name pretty much explains how he operates. biggest chicken i've ever seen. the woman that is "madam chairman" (talk about an oxymoron) was lobbied on the board by the cattlemen association. they're all real rich, well connected people that sit on all kindsa boards. that's what they do. they aren't creative. and they have no balls. same goes for shroufe and that joke of an attorney they got from the atty. gen's. office. napalitano ran that place long enough, and then turned it over to the biggest pud this state has ever seen in little terry goddard, that there ain't a backbone left in that office. plain and simple, these guys are afraid of getting bad press. they should've negotiated out of it years ago, but were too stupid to figure it out. only thing i can say is "VOTE". 2 years from now, vote janet the hairy ape and that little dork, terry the fairy goddard, out of office. get a governor that will get rid of these jokers on the commission and replace em with someone with real live gonads. someone that will use science and fact in decisions and not worry about being politically correct. how many hunters are eligible to be registered voters? i guarantee you it's enough to swing an election in this state. if romley is serious about running for governor, and i sorta hope he is, he oughta be sidelin' up to the hunters, because we can elect him. who swung the last presidential election? the NRA did by helping Bush carry arkansas and tennessee. they can whine all they want about florida, but if gore woulda carried either one of these states, he woulda won. and the overwhelming reason he didn't was because of his stand on gun rights. we count guys. we count a bunch. and we have more power than you could ever imagine. just gotta use it. and i'm serious about the pickets. a few guys with some signs could really put a black eye on ol' boy george and his toady griz. hunt on, Lark.

[couestaxi]

Red Rabbit - In talking with some of the law enforcement folks at G&F there was a big problem for them in how to account for all animal parts from commercial vs. non-commercial tags. From a taxidermist standpoint this could put us out of business. We would not be able to re-sell any mounts not picked up, we would not be able to buy or sell any capes etc off of non-commercial animals. Back in April of this year I actually e-mailed Taulman and he responded, not very nice though. He actually was looking forward to higher non-resident tags as many of his clients do not mind dropping $5000 on a Arizona Elk Tag. This entire thing has only hurt the blue collar hunter like myself who enjoys hunting. Many are calling for a reorganization of AZGF but under our current Governor that might be a big mistake. We'll have to see how the legislature looks at this mess. i bet it all gets sent back to the commission.

[donniedent]

I actually thought that might be the reason they didn't do the non-commercial thing. Well we don't want to hurt the taxidermists thats for sure. This state is going to heck in a handbasket and its getting worse every year. More idiots in the woods. I gotta compete with some eastern "elk hunter" (i use the term very loosely) for an elk tag in the state my family has been in for 7 generations. Freakin' joke!!! My wife and I have been seriously considering moving to Wyoming and this might just be the kicker. A resident there can buy a bull tag over the counter for I think around $50. Why in heck do I still live in this eastern liberal overun California copycat piece of shoot place still? I love Arizona as a place but as a state it sucks!!! They should come out with Arizona native bonus points!!! Greedy bastards!

I gotta go I'm pissed.

[Diamondbackaz]

I like the premium deer hunt and hope it extends to December whitetail///

Edited January 1, 1970 by Diamondbackaz

[az4life]

Thanks for posting the details. I did not see them on the AZGFD page.

 

I agree with Lark on a lot of this. Our liberal Victor Victoria Governor is a perfect example of a "throw money at it" liberal and no way will we get anything past her office to help AZ sportsmen. Don't get me started on that liberal wench. Even my dog knows (S)he is not "right". He looks around and acts concerned, sort of like if I spoke with a woman's voice, cocks his head and then quickly leaves the room when he hears her voice on the television. EVERY TIME

 

I also think we (AZ Residents) took it in the shorts on these new rules. IT is getting bad and Moving to WYO is on my list of options. Only problem is the state is full of huge tracts of land that is privately owned and the tags may be reasonable, but the "owner Tresspass Fees" are often outrageous.

 

Wyo also has the CWD (Mad Cow) disease in a lot of Elk and spreading rapidly to the Deer. Everything is a lot different there. The state only has around 500,000 residents and roughly same size as AZ. My experience is the residents are friendly after you do your first couple years to earn thier respect and trust.

 

Those are a couple words the politicians and many others around here and CA don't know the meaning of. Trust, Respect, Friendly

 

AZGFD took the easy way out and it shows that they do not have experience or good judgement to put the state wildlife resources and AZ sportsman first, ahead of the fear of legal impacts.

As I said months ago, it is likely the beginning of the end for AZ hunters!

[falls]

I feel like i just got kicked in the kahonies.

 

I just killed a nice whitetail during the archery hunt this year. I knew this deer was a blessing but I did not realize how much of a blessing till now.

I may have just killed my last deer. If tag fees go up as much as you guys say, and with no limit on non residents I believe my hunting days are over.

Not to mention, how am I going to pass on the fine tradition of hunting to my 5 year old daughters.

 

Game and Fish has about as much collective testosterone as my wifes hairdresser. Once again biting the hand that feeds them. Its obvious to see where they were all along on this whole issue. Like we all thought but didnt want to believe its all about the money. More non residents + higher tag fees = more dollars to fund wolf reintroduction and mountain lion retirement programs.

 

More feel good junk like "conservation points" and "loyalty points" does anyone still fall for this tired old line?

 

Raising tag fees will only accomplish 1 thing. Now itll be even easier for the out of staters to get a tag. Cause they wont have to compete with so many of us "working class" folks anymore. Well all be sitting home, getting our hunting fix watching Bill Jordan and Babe Winkleman on TV.

 

I really can't believe this day has come I always said it would but, not this soon.

 

And the gall of USO to send some smarmy lawyer over here to tell US how WE will be doing things? And we all know G&F will just bend over and play there way.

 

The more I think about this the madder I get. I just cant believe it. Something needs to be done, we need to take our back our wildlife and our traditons. Problem is that most of us wont do anything. Weve got jobs and families and wen it comes down to the nut cutting theres just not enough time or money left to fight. G&F knows this. Taulman knows this.

 

My wife just told me Im preaching to the choir. Well just see who our friends are now. Are any of the big wild life foundations/associations gonna step up? Lets take action.

 

 

Jeff Falls/Prescott Valley Arizona

[Diamondbackaz]

If you think about it, $50.00 for a deer tag for a once a year hunt is still one of the less expensive items for the hunt. It cost me $30.00 to fill my tank in my jeep for one day of scouting. I always felt if a tag is too cheap, anti hunters put in for those tags just to kepp a hunters out of the field. Right now, I know one person with a November whitetail tag that isn't going to use it because he decided to make some travel plans, what a waste. As for the legal stuff, taking the easy way out may also be taking the smart way out. Every time you deal with a law suit, it costs tens of thousands, and even hundreds of thousands of dollars just in litigation costs that our license fees pay for.

[More D]

Your right DBack.....but Deer is a given for me and family with the hope for and Elk tag every few years and a Buff and sheep tag only befotre I die. If my wife and daugter all get a tag after the new HIGHER FEES I can promise you all that new higher fees only hurt me. $30 in gas $50 for a tag is a good way to look at it but how about a guy whos Arizona Elk budget is in the 10s of thousands. $500 or $1500 or even $2500 is not going to hurt, heck it will make it easier for him to get a tag and even an Elk.

Saddend to see that our G&F is being ran around like they only had them self to worry about.

 

 

More money for tags ARE NOT THE ANSWER!