3 TV

[.270]

oh dang, you really told me. hunt in subdivisions if you want. i don't want to. take whatever shots ye want. i don't care. but i still think it's a dumb, lazy way to hunt. and if ya read what i wrote, i said i didn't know what the law said as far as bows. far as i know, there is no rule there. as far as your dog getting et by a lion. lions are everywhere. my dad's next door neighbor got bit by one last year while he was feeding his cats. i kinda doubt if this dummy baited in a lion by feeding deer. the lion was there because of a buncha reasons. anyway, if you think you're managing the herd by shooting tame animals in somebodies neighborhood, go ahead. have fun doing it. give us all a bad name if ya want. i'll just cruise by on my way to the hills and leave all the pet deer for you. Lark.

[mattys281]

Hate to interrupt a good arguement, but just because there currently are not state laws about discharging a bow near occupied structures doesn't mean there aren't laws against it. Prescott Valley has one for example, a 1/4 mile. Been warned on that for shooting in my backyard when I lived there & there's signs posted all over the fences around the praire (or at least there was before they bulldozed the antelope & built the houses). Prescott Valley isn't the only township/city/whatever with those laws in place & as hunters make themselves more visible to the Californians who are building all these new developments around our forests, you can expect many more towns to follow suit with their own laws & eventually the state will adopt the policy. As a hunter, it's your responsibility to be aware of all local laws as well as the state ones pertaining to where you are & what you're doing while you're there. Just like it's your responsibility to know whos land you're on, whether it's marked or not.

Matt S.

[.270]

just like i mentioned about alpine. it isn't an incorporated town and there are elk all over the place and guys got completely ignernt about shooting animals around houses and stuff. so now, you can't hunt anywhere that they call alpine valley. whatever that is. people should have been smart enough to not do what they were doing, but instead had to be dumb until they made a law. i hafta sorta agree with donnie, some. i don't want anyone to tell me what i can or can't do. and if they tell me i can't do something that is legal, well i really don't like that. but at the same time a guy has to have enough sense to know when he's not doing anyone any good. i used to work with a guy that was raised in LA. he started hunting in the 60's. went every year faithfully and never shot anything. he wanted to get a deer so bad it hurt. after about 7 or 8 years or so, he was headed back after a fruitless hunt and some folks were feeding a buck marshmallows on the side of the road. it was in a place legal to shoot a deer. he had a tag. and he shooed all the kids away and blasted it. 100% legal. he was proud of it. got it mounted. not a thing anybody could do about it. legally. you think he did hunters any good? i don't think so. you think any of the kids that saw that grew up being prohunters? i kinda doubt it. just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's a good thing to do. i don't care if guys take photos of animals with blood everywhere and the toungue hanging out. screw em if they don't like it or are offended. i like to see racks in the back of trucks up for the world to see. if someone is offended, who cares? not me. but i think it ain't cool to shoot stuff in neighborhoods. legal or not. and there have been a couple of instances in the past few months that have really gave all hunters a black eye, just because some guys decided to be lazy. Lark.

[GameHauler]

Note Signature:

[mattys281]

I have strong mixed feelings on this whole topic. I think that hunting is an ethical & natural activity and that hiding it or making it obscure enough so that it doesn't affend a bunch of bunny hugging, liberal, you-know-whats is counter productive. Taking such an approach implies that you are ashamed of what you are doing, which in turn implies that you are doing something wrong, so on that hand we should be proud of what we do and display our sport for all the world to see.

 

On the other hand is organizations like my pals at PETA & the Humane Society that have twenty year plans laid out to systematically eliminate not only hunting, but all "human exploitation of animals", which includes clothing, commercial raising for food & dairy, circuses & zoos, medical research, etc. These people are much more vocal & a more efficient at spreading their crap propoganda then we are at spreading ours, so giving them anything that they can use against us is not smart. Even if it was legal.

 

It's unfortunate that we're in this boat, but we are. You don't have to spend every one of your hunting days worrying about what others might think, but when in a position where nonhunters & possibly antihunters are going to see you, you'd dang sure better give a litte consideration to the impression your actions will cause. After all, it's not just your hunting that's at risk, it's all of ours. Most people buy homes close to the wildlife, because they like viewing the wildlife. They don't like viewing you shoot it. I'm not about to tell anyone where to hunt, but I think, as Lark has stated, these "fringe" areas should be voluntarily left alone, if for no other reason than that it's a good political move for our group.

 

Matt S.

[.270]

'zakly. most folks who don't hunt, don't have a problem with folks that do. shoot a deer in their yard, and they probly will. Lark.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Lark......man there are some nice bulls that come down into that Alpine meadow. My dad has a place on the edge of the meadow, south of Judds lake. We go there on the weekend during the rut and listen to them bugle. It is alot of fun and I have often dreamed of the day I could position myself up in the middle of that big ridge to the south...we call it TV mountain, don't really know the name, but some where I could nail one of those buggers. But...every time I have gotten drawn for 27.....I go elsewhere, it is not worth the hassle of fighting that battle. Don't get me wrong, if I catch him up on that ridge and I have a tag, I'm going after him.

I would rather fight that battle eslewhere, education of youngsters and keeping the hunting dream alive. The damage control on two latest elk fiascos will take it's toll on hunting. There is alot, and I mean you wouldn't believe how much building is going on in the Pinetop/Show Low area.....right in the middle of prime game habitat......we can either kick against the pricks(literally) or educate and set a standard.

[Packer]

I guess this topic seems to bring forward the best in people. I support what Lark has stated and say that it is better to avoid the negative press that is bound to come from hunting in people's back yards.

 

In regard to how a property has to be posted: There needs to be a sign at each corner, at each point of vehicular access and at 1/4 mile intervals inbetween (ARS 17-304). There is an exception to the 1/4 mile sign placement and that is if a post has 100 square inches of orange paint it may serve as the interval notice. With that being said you can reach a fence line and if you do not make an effort to look for a sign or a post then you could be tresspassing without even knowing it. Additionally, even if it is not posted properly and a person tells you you are on private and you need to leave and you do not choose to do so, you can still be guilty of trespassing through the title 13 statute.

 

In either case I think is comes down to an ethical decision and each of us has our own set of ethics that we need to live by. My personal ethics would not allow me do hunt next to a subdivision but that is just me. I could be caught up in the same situation by shooting an animal a mile or more from the subdivision and having it run down hill and into someone's yard before it expires. I know that this is not the most likely scenario but I have been on more than one blood trail that went for more than a mile.

 

Anyway, that is just my two cents.

 

Packer

[donniedent]

Sorry if I got a little mouthy Lark. I just get fired up sometimes.

 

I don't think it should be common practice for any of us to hunt lawn ornaments. But.... I also think we as hunters need to remind the non-hunting public that we have a right to be there too, even if its on the fringes. You also need to remember that this is the reason G&F does depradation and limited opportunity hunts, those animals need to be controlled like any others.

 

Now, that being said... Do I hunt near houses??? No. Would I enjoy hunting on the fringes??? No. Do I think others should hunt near houses??? Yes, if they don't mind the aggrivation of dealing with bunny-huggers. Do I think others have the right to hunt the fringes??? Yes, and I will ALWAYS defend other hunters rights to do so. As long as its a legal method of hunting... I will defend yours, mine and any hunter out there's right to hunt the way they choose.

 

Lark, I'm with you buddy. Get me as far from civilization a possible but in the eyes of the public, we need to appear as a united front, unwavering in our defense of the sport we love!!

 

Donnie

[.270]

yeah, i sorta got carried away with testosterone too. i 'pologize. we need to all hang together on the big picture and try to not do things that ain't helpfull to the sport. but still stick together. there's lotsa folks that hate us. some that like us and some don't care. the latter 2 are the ones we need to keep where they are. later, Lark.

[mattys281]

yeah, i sorta got carried away with testosterone too. i 'pologize. we need to all hang together on the big picture and try to not do things that ain't helpfull to the sport. but still stick together. there's lotsa folks that hate us. some that like us and some don't care. the latter 2 are the ones we need to keep where they are. later, Lark.

 

As a group we need to make a push to not only keep those non-hunters who like us where they are, but get those who could go either way on our side. You're not going to get that done by blasting critters away where they can see it from their porches, or by flashing around a bunch of photos of animals with tongues hanging & blood streaming from their wounds. We all know how things used to be a couple decades ago when it seemed like everyone hunted & it was common place to see station wagons driving down the highway with deer strapped to the hood or a pick-up with a big bull elk head hangin out the back during hunting season. Unfortunately, things are different now. Everyone's become to sensitive & easy to offend. I believe that's the natural result of living the life of relative luxury & convenience that we yanks all do, where we seldom have to get our hands dirty & do things for ourselves. Everyone's aware that cows have to die in order to grill our burgers on Friday night, but we don't have to see it. We just have to go to the Super Wal-mart & pick up some shrink wrapped ground beef. Show those same consumers some footage of how a slaughter house operates & most of 'em would immediately go to the "that's so cruel" card.

 

Dwight Schue wrote an excellent editorial a few months back in BH mag on taking trophy photos. Among his suggestions were to carry a small piece of thread & some paper towels or napkins in your pack so that you can tie the mouth shut & wipe off the excess blood prior to taking your trophy photos. Another suggestion is to role the animal over so that you get a photo of the side with the least damage. One of the better tips I recall reading was in regard to animals that had already been field dressed or cut into pieces: save these pics for fellow hunters, not your neighbor who's sitting on the fence.

 

I've personally fostered a lot of interest in my bowhunting with the people at work by showing off trail cam photos. We have a Field Quality Engineer from our customer who is in & out of our shop several times a week that was telling me not two months ago how cruel hunting was, but I'm proud to claim that I changed her tune. She now will ask me if I've been out or gotten any new pics. Showing people that you spend a huge amount of time & effort out studying & enjoying these animals and demonstrating the respect you have for them, that you don't simply view them as targets with a pulse, will go a long way.

 

p.s. the non-hunters seem to really like the uncommon critter pics. My lion pics & cotamundi are local favorites. Keep in mind that most of them rarely see a deer, let alone something that's rare for us to spot.

[donniedent]

yeah, i sorta got carried away with testosterone too. i 'pologize. we need to all hang together on the big picture and try to not do things that ain't helpfull to the sport. but still stick together. there's lotsa folks that hate us. some that like us and some don't care. the latter 2 are the ones we need to keep where they are. later, Lark.

 

 

Shoot Lark, you gotta be smarter than me... you knew how to spell "testosterone" AND you knew where to put the apostrophe in " 'pologize ". LOL. You're a good guy Lark.... now don't tell anyone but there are some Canadian Geese hanging out in the parking lot down here at Turf Paradise, whats say you and I have a go at 'em????

 

Donnie

[Non-Typical Solutions]

That is funny....my son had been down in the valley for about a week....first time living in the big city.....he called me up and told me him and his buddy were going to go down to one of the urban lakes and do some duck hunting with a golf club.....I told him that would be an unacceptablething to do even though it sounds like lots of fun.

 

When I was a kid growing up in souther New Mexico, it was not that unusual to pack my 22-250 under the seat of the car on the way to school just in case a coyote ran across the road.

Farmers and Ranchers didn't mind as long as you weren't shooting their critters or tanks and stuff like that.

 

Today it is not even a question, it is still just as rural, but times have changed.......I would get thrown in jail for packing a gun to school, piss off the neighbors for killing the coyote that just ate their pet poodle and make the rancher mad for shooting the protected blacktailed prariedog that dug the hole that just broke his prize horses leg.

[donniedent]

yeah, i sorta got carried away with testosterone too. i 'pologize. we need to all hang together on the big picture and try to not do things that ain't helpfull to the sport. but still stick together. there's lotsa folks that hate us. some that like us and some don't care. the latter 2 are the ones we need to keep where they are. later, Lark.

 

As a group we need to make a push to not only keep those non-hunters who like us where they are, but get those who could go either way on our side. You're not going to get that done by blasting critters away where they can see it from their porches, or by flashing around a bunch of photos of animals with tongues hanging & blood streaming from their wounds. We all know how things used to be a couple decades ago when it seemed like everyone hunted & it was common place to see station wagons driving down the highway with deer strapped to the hood or a pick-up with a big bull elk head hangin out the back during hunting season. Unfortunately, things are different now. Everyone's become to sensitive & easy to offend. I believe that's the natural result of living the life of relative luxury & convenience that we yanks all do, where we seldom have to get our hands dirty & do things for ourselves. Everyone's aware that cows have to die in order to grill our burgers on Friday night, but we don't have to see it. We just have to go to the Super Wal-mart & pick up some shrink wrapped ground beef. Show those same consumers some footage of how a slaughter house operates & most of 'em would immediately go to the "that's so cruel" card.

 

Dwight Schue wrote an excellent editorial a few months back in BH mag on taking trophy photos. Among his suggestions were to carry a small piece of thread & some paper towels or napkins in your pack so that you can tie the mouth shut & wipe off the excess blood prior to taking your trophy photos. Another suggestion is to role the animal over so that you get a photo of the side with the least damage. One of the better tips I recall reading was in regard to animals that had already been field dressed or cut into pieces: save these pics for fellow hunters, not your neighbor who's sitting on the fence.

 

I've personally fostered a lot of interest in my bowhunting with the people at work by showing off trail cam photos. We have a Field Quality Engineer from our customer who is in & out of our shop several times a week that was telling me not two months ago how cruel hunting was, but I'm proud to claim that I changed her tune. She now will ask me if I've been out or gotten any new pics. Showing people that you spend a huge amount of time & effort out studying & enjoying these animals and demonstrating the respect you have for them, that you don't simply view them as targets with a pulse, will go a long way.

 

p.s. the non-hunters seem to really like the uncommon critter pics. My lion pics & cotamundi are local favorites. Keep in mind that most of them rarely see a deer, let alone something that's rare for us to spot.

 

 

Great post, you make some very good points. But, I don't see how sheltering non-hunters from the reality of hunting will do any good in the future. To truly educate someone, you need to show them all aspects of hunting. But if showing only trailcam pics and clean kill photos is changing peoples minds for you, maybe thats the way to do it! Again, excellent post!

[jnobleinaz]

This will be the norm for our future and many beyond. With urban sprawl and land being bought up left and right you will be running into antis and people that do not realize that we as conservationist's have a priveledge to hunt on property that some might think is unhuntable. I can see if you were in someones front yard or something but I still stand by if the landowners do not properly post the property you can hunt on it. Everyone has to have good judgement. We all cant put our tails between our legs and not stand up for what is lawfully okay. I have had the oppurtnity this year to be with a friend who was setting up on an animal across the street from a home and the homeowners were mowing thier lawn. They then stopped to come over and watch. I did get nervous not knowing what they were going to say but they sat and watched my friend miss and we had a little laugh. I just agree we need to stand our ground and there is also a law that prohibits people from interfering with a hunt. And yes we do have a ton of people that think they manufacture steaks and roasts at the local supermarket. For these people they need to wake up and smell the potroast. Animals die and they sometimes are wounded but if we do the best we can to take ethical shots "not frontals on elk for an example" we will be much better off. I f I am out and see land that looks good and is not properly posted I will hunt on it until someone kicks me off. Have a good one. John