Short Ammunition Test

[devinv]

Went out to the Rio Salado Range this afternoon to shoot the 30-06 and practice, picked up 3 different manufacturer ammo and tested them. All of them were 150 grain bullets, I shot the Remington Express Core Lokt, Winchester Super X Power Point, and the Federal Power Shok. Set up a the first target at 25 yards. Note: I'm not claiming to be the most accurate shooter, but I am fairly consistent. Here are the results for each with pictures of the groups.

 

25 yards.

 

Federal:

 

Remington:

 

Winchester:

 

 

Next was the target at 100 yards.

 

Federal:

 

Remington:

 

Winchester:

 

 

And finally, the 200 yard pattern. (not allowed to place targets at 300)

 

Federal:

 

Remington:

 

Winchester:

 

 

There ya go. I wish I would have had a box of the Hornady Light Mags on hand that I have been using but I didn't. On the other hand, for those of you that remember a couple months ago when I had trouble sighting in the Remington Core Lokts wouldn't pattern for sh!t, and not that's not the case.

 

Now comes the questions..

My scope was sighted in at 25 yards, with the idea then at 100 yards the bullets should place about 3 inches high at 100. Well the pictures don't show it, but they actually shot 4.5 to 5 inches high at 100. Then, at 200, they were all shooting 8 inches high. Before the obvious assumptions come to mind, between shooting the groups of 4, I waited about 10 minutes for the barrel to cool down, plus, it was only about 85 out there today, and, the patio is shaded. On top of that, when initially shooting, the barrel was cleaned and not fouled, and half way through the shooting i recleaned the barrel thoroughly to keep results consistent. So why are the 100 shots so high? Much less the 200 yard shots doubling? My idea is that maybe because the barrel is heating up it is causing the composite stock to heat, and therefore expand. And when it is expanding it is rising the barrel.. Yes? No? Is the best way to solve this to float the barrel? Bed the stock? I tried running a dollar bill between the stock and the barrel and it only went about half an inch, so there is contact between the two..

[bobbyo]

Devin,

First did you sight in each bullet at 25 yards. From the pictures it seems the Federal was the only one that was dead nutz center. This bullet should be approx 3 inch high at 100 and 5" at 200. The other bullets even if they are slightly high from 25 yards will fly considerably higher! If you were 1/2 inch high at 25 you would get the 5 inches at 100 and 8 inches at 200. The contact could be a problem, but when i have experienced the problem it would group first 6 shots and then send flyers considerably right and high. Your groups (Though not great) seem to be patterning close by each other. Before doing anything else I would pick one bullet that you think is best. The federal looks best to me and adjust your scope to 3" at 100 and see where it hits at 200 since this is your realistic hunting distances.

Bob

[Huntn coues]

I am shooting the Winchesters in the 150 grain and I am 4.5 " high at 100 and 5 3/4 " high at 200.

 

I am going to try the Federals and I will let you know what happens with em.

[devinv]

Devin,

First did you sight in each bullet at 25 yards. From the pictures it seems the Federal was the only one that was dead nutz center. This bullet should be approx 3 inch high at 100 and 5" at 200. The other bullets even if they are slightly high from 25 yards will fly considerably higher! If you were 1/2 inch high at 25 you would get the 5 inches at 100 and 8 inches at 200. The contact could be a problem, but when i have experienced the problem it would group first 6 shots and then send flyers considerably right and high. Your groups (Though not great) seem to be patterning close by each other. Before doing anything else I would pick one bullet that you think is best. The federal looks best to me and adjust your scope to 3" at 100 and see where it hits at 200 since this is your realistic hunting distances.

Bob

 

If we consider the results from the federal bullet, dead center at 25. How did you get the calculations for the 100 and 200 yard mark? The BC calculator on biggameinfo.com, after entering the approximate adjustments shows at a 25 yard zero it would be about 2.7" high at 100 and 1.7" high at 200. How did you get 3" and 5"? Also, I can't explain why the bullets are shooting 4.5" high at 100 and 8" high at 200, when the zero was dead on at 25 for the federal,the barrel wan't fouled, nor was it hot. Could it be that the stock expand from the heat and causing it to angle the barrel slightly higher, and thats why my bullets were rising from 100 to 200 yards? I thought they should begin to drop between 100 200?

[bobbyo]

Devin,

you are right I must of confused myself with some other round. If you go back and put in a 350 yard zero in the ballistic calculater. You will get results similar to what you have 5.5 high at 100 and 7.7 inches high at 200, but the 25 yard mark is + .7 inches high. So what i would do is pick one type of bullets shoot it cold and clean at 25 yards. If it is hitting back at dead nutz center at 25 your gun may have a heating problem. if it is hitting higher then 1/2 inch at 25 then adjust it down.

Bob

[TAM]

How long did you let your barel cool between shots and did you clean your barel between groups? Try waiting 5-7 minutes between shots and clean the barel after each 5 shot group. Right after you clean the first two may be fliers, but the next three should be tight. I would try those Hornady light magnum rounds you spoke of, I had very good results with them. If that doesn't work I'd look into hand loading some of your own ammo. If you don't already have a trigger job (3lbs) you may want to look into that as well.

 

I agree about the Federals being the best, but with a little effort I'll bet you can do a little better.

 

Good luck!

[devinv]

How long did you let your barel cool between shots and did you clean your barel between groups? Try waiting 5-7 minutes between shots and clean the barel after each 5 shot group. Right after you clean the first two may be fliers, but the next three should be tight. I would try those Hornady light magnum rounds you spoke of, I had very good results with them. If that doesn't work I'd look into hand loading some of your own ammo. If you don't already have a trigger job (3lbs) you may want to look into that as well.

 

I agree about the Federals being the best, but with a little effort I'll bet you can do a little better.

 

Good luck!

 

I waited about that amount of time before groups, but I didn't clean that often, I cleaned after the first 20 or so rounds. I might try the hornadys again because I don't think I had any flyers when shooting them as compared to these other 3 rounds. I'm gunna head to the range in a bit to try again.

[ThomC]

Pick the brand that groups the best. Forget about where it hits at 25 yds. and sight the rifle in at 3" high at 100 yds.

[devinv]

shot again today, just federals, they were good at 25, terrible after that, couldnt group inside an inch and a half at 100 with several flyers, and 200 was a joke. i'm going to go back to hornadys, they are far more consistent, shot for shot. i guess you pay for what you get.

[Red Rabbit]

Devin,

Sand out that fore-end pressure point and try again.

Clean the barrel well, fire a few foulers and then don't clean for the next 30+ rounds.

[devinv]

Devin,

Sand out that fore-end pressure point and try again.

Clean the barrel well, fire a few foulers and then don't clean for the next 30+ rounds.

 

It seems there is constant pressure throughout the length of the barrel, should I sand the stock the whole length?

[Red Rabbit]

Devin,

Sand out that fore-end pressure point and try again.

Clean the barrel well, fire a few foulers and then don't clean for the next 30+ rounds.

 

It seems there is constant pressure throughout the length of the barrel, should I sand the stock the whole length?

 

I would. Use sand paper wrapped around a wooden dowel about the diameter of the barrel. Only relieve the pressure along the barrel channel, not around the action.

[crazy4COUES]

How long did you let your barel cool between shots and did you clean your barel between groups? Try waiting 5-7 minutes between shots and clean the barel after each 5 shot group. Right after you clean the first two may be fliers, but the next three should be tight. I would try those Hornady light magnum rounds you spoke of, I had very good results with them. If that doesn't work I'd look into hand loading some of your own ammo. If you don't already have a trigger job (3lbs) you may want to look into that as well.

 

I agree about the Federals being the best, but with a little effort I'll bet you can do a little better.

 

Good luck!

 

I waited about that amount of time before groups, but I didn't clean that often, I cleaned after the first 20 or so rounds. I might try the hornadys again because I don't think I had any flyers when shooting them as compared to these other 3 rounds. I'm gunna head to the range in a bit to try again.

 

 

The way I would advise you do it is as follows:

 

1. Shoot one 3 shot group waiting 1-2 minutes between shots. This will allow your barrel to 'warm up'.

I always rest my rifle with the bolt open and muzzle pointed up. This allows a 'chimeny' affect for even barrel warming, cooling while waiting. Also I was told to wait 1-2 minutes between the shots so the barrel vibrations will cease. The barrel should be 'warm' while grouping, not cold.

 

2. 3-5 minutes later start your first 5 shot group. Waiting 2 minutes between shots.

 

3. Then I run the brush down the barrel, followed by a patch. Repeat as necessary.

 

This is what I do and have good results. HORNADY V-MAX AMMO is what works best for me. Good Luck!

 

I almost forgot to mention......sometimes in the afternoon the heat will cause the bullet to shoot high. One reason is the target will actually appear higher than it is, as well it will have an affect on your bullet trajectory. If at all possible do it early in the morning, the up-drafts are less.

[bobbyo]

shot again today, just federals, they were good at 25, terrible after that, couldnt group inside an inch and a half at 100 with several flyers, and 200 was a joke. i'm going to go back to hornadys, they are far more consistent, shot for shot. i guess you pay for what you get.

God dang it! I am ready to throw out this rifle. Oh ya it is not my rifle. I know you are probablly getting frustrated. I think I told you this on the last thread a couple months ago, but I will tell you again. I have had the same problems with grouping and flyers that you are having now with my most trusted rifle. I think due to all the fuss I had to go through allowed me to really get to know my rifle. The truth is I never solved the flyers when the gun heats up. It will still do it and I can perdict with accuracy where they are going. High and away right, like a screw ball. I have just learned not to move my scope on a heated rifle, and to let it cool (15 min) between 3 shot groups when sighting it in. So I feel you can make this rifle a shooter. I would try what Red Rabbit and the others have said. One device you should consider borrowing or buying is a bench rest. They are worth their weight in gold by saving money on ammunition when sighting in. It also saves in frustration because it takes most of the human error out of sighting in, so you can concentrate on the rifle to get it sighted in and not worry about the shooter. Below is a picture of one that I use and would recomend.

Bob

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