boycott the harvest survey post card!!!!

[Rembrant]

If you are suspicious of the data gathering and what they do with the data, refusing to give the data in the form of a boycott reminds me of the high school basketball player that quits the team because he's not getting enough playing time.

Logic askew.

Mike

[crazy4COUES]

Despite strong support from hunters, G&F refuses to institute a mandatory harvest reporting system. The result is suspect harvest data, that G&F can manipulate into what ever their agenda desires. What if enough hunters boycotted the current harvest survey post card? Could that possibly nudge G&F into a mandatory harvest reporting system, that would certainly produce more accurate harvest data? Think about it..... I'm going to be filing mine into the trash.

 

Mark

 

Correct, G&F refuses to do anything that will provide accurate data. This leads to the commision MANIPULATING what info is provided to suit there financial needs.

 

Incorrect, boycotting survey cards will just allow more MANIPULATION by the commission.

 

DO YOUR PART! Participate in ANY and EVERY aspect you can. It would be dead nuts 100% accurate IF EVERYONE filled out the cards....don't you get it??? They know some folks like you will jack the system around just enough to help them FUDGE the numbers.

[crazy4COUES]

I've sent them in for as long as I remember, but today after what they pulled with our archery deer tags and what they want to do with archery elk, ( move 1/2 of tags to november ) we had close to 50 hunters at the flagstaff meeting, not one of the " comish " batted an eye for what az hunters want. I was told that one " comish " made the statement " we are just tired, we have been here for 4 days setting game regs." I'm sorry I throught this was your job ! you asked and were given the responsiblity. the bad news it appears Lenard " game chief " has an agenda " he does not like archery hunters

 

AMEN...

[bowsniper]

DO YOUR PART! Participate in ANY and EVERY aspect you can. It would be dead nuts 100% accurate IF EVERYONE filled out the cards....don't you get it??? They know some folks like you will jack the system around just enough to help them FUDGE the numbers.

 

Yeah, I do get it.

 

I get that over 50 hunters from Phoenix traveled to Flagstaff to give public input to the commission, and the commission blew them off. One commissioner whined "I've been here four days, and I'm tired, and I want to go home" (so screw your public input!) I get that Dick King, the most diplomatic and peaceful person I know, got so exasperated with the commission, that he lost his temper with the commission, and gave them an ear full. I get that leonard and the fish police, listen to public input because they have to, and then do what they want. I get that less than 30% hunters send in the harvest survey, so G&F guesses what the real numbers are. I get that G&F refuses to do anything that will provide accurate harvest data. I get that a lot of hunters and hunting organizations give input to G&F, and they are ignored. I get that what ever we are doing now to influence G&F IS NOT WORKING.

 

What don't you get?

 

I am fed up (and "some folks like me", to use your words) with being part of a bogus system of public input and corrupt harvest data that is used to justify poor management.

 

Don't you get that if nobody sent in the harvest survey card, G&F would have to go to a mandatory harvest reporting system??

 

Mark

[crazy4COUES]

So you refuse to fill out a VOLUNTARY survey card....they make it mandatory and then you will do what???? Just cause THEY said so or cause YOU care about what is going on??????

[bowsniper]

So you refuse to fill out a VOLUNTARY survey card....they make it mandatory and then you will do what????

 

If G&F were to ever make harvest reporting mandatory, I would eagerly participate in the gathering of accurate data (send the cards in) which would allow (force) G&F to make responsible management decisions based on real and accurate harvest data.

 

 

 

Just cause THEY said so or cause YOU care about what is going on??????

 

It should be obvious to the casual observer that I care about what's going on. Otherwise I would not be on this forum trying to instigate G&F to obtain accurate harvest data.

 

Mark

[dave]

What should be the goal of collecting data?

What should be the goal of the survey cards?

I have been told several times that the Department receives approximately 50% of the survey cards back and that is a good response, more than adequate to base their data on.

So what is the model? We trust 50% reporting from all weapons groups but do not trust archers? We must have mandatory reporting for archers? We must put archery to a draw because we are not able to actually count their harvest and we don’t trust them? If they use a weapon that is not as productive as modern rifles and 20% of them are able to kill something, we must stop it before they eliminate all of our animals? We must stop the weapon that has the least impact on the resource so we can justify more tags for the weapon of our choice? We don’t really care about what happens to the animals, we are just selling permits and getting $7.50 per application. We can’t get sportsmen to support a tax incentive because we don’t know how to manage our money. We can’t acquire more habitat or access because we don’t have the money. We couldn’t grow more animals in the habitat because we don’t have the money. We can't grow more animals because ranchers complain. We can't do predator management because someone might complain. We can’t require mandatory reporting for all weapons for all species because that would cost money. That would also have a negative approach in appealing to all hunters by showing that we may distrust some. This may not fit into our recruitment and retention plans. Guess how much time is spent at each Commission meeting dealing with the ones that have broke the law (time certain)? Must be bowhunters.

There is a great disservice being done by this Commission and this Department.

This is what they do not do:

1. Respect the opinions of the public.

2. Grow animals.

3. Grow habitat.

4. Grow access.

They distrust us, THEY HAVE PROVEN WE CANT TRUST THEM. The feeling is mutual.

 

Who can trust who and who can work together?

 

I am slow but I am not stupid. I see what they are doing. I know who I can trust.

[bowhunter4life]

All we are asking is for the game and fish make maditory check in, so we will have facts. At both meetings, I went to this year they used "best guess method " to make there agenda, using the 25%-35% return cards to make there guidlines. that is wrong! this would also help our hard working wildlife managers job much easery if they had hard facts from all hunters in there unit. Also you would think they would take imput and use it from our hunting clubs, I.E az elk,az deer, a.b.a. d.c.a sheep,az wildlife, r.m.f, antelope,varmit callers and many others, these clubs raise millions dollars every year to support g and f and to give back to our wildlife. many of us are members to these clubs and support there cause. mike

[dave]

4 cups of coffie, two cigars and whats for lunch? Snooozzz

 

This is the important stuff right here.

[bowhuntinmaniac]

"If they use a weapon that is not as productive as modern rifles and 20% of them are able to kill something, we must stop it before they eliminate all of our animals?"

dave, I must correct you..........bowhunters are not being managed by 20% kill of total bowhunters. We are being managed by 20% of the total rifle kills, which means that if rifle hunters take 100 animals in a hunt, and bowhunters take 20, we have achieved a "20% success" and that unit will be permitted the following year.

This is ridiculous when G&F have no idea how many animals the rifle hunters kill in each unit. Also, why are we being discriminated against that we are allowed less than 1 deer to every 5 rifle hunters take?

Return of survey cards has never hit the 50% mark, and G&F still guesses on the remainder. if they have close to 0%, they will still guess.

The return of survey cards does not help the WM, it helps the branch manager.

The best thing we can do is, start calling the Commissioners and writing letters, demanding to have mandatory reporting for all species, no matter the weapon type.

We already have mandatory reporting for archery deer, bear, buffalo, and sheep. Why not add the rest in?

[crazy4COUES]

Let me just clarify one thing, I am a bowhunter, always have been, always will. I agree the bowhunters are not the problem. There are too many legitimate questions and not enough reliable information to create legitimate answers.

 

They put a "MANDATORY" harvest reporting on bow kills. How are they forcing one to report???? You still have to VOLUNTARILY pick up the phone and make you lil fingers dial the darn number....If you don't do that how do they make you??? It still requires EFFORT in order for the system to work. That is WHAT I GET!

 

Ever heard the saying, "THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT"? Don't sit back and think a mandatory reporting is going to solve the problem, cause it won't! Do your part and report your information wether it is MANDATORY or not!

[SunDevil]

If you are suspicious of the data gathering and what they do with the data, refusing to give the data in the form of a boycott reminds me of the high school basketball player that quits the team because he's not getting enough playing time.

Logic askew.

Mike

 

well if half the team quit and they told the AD it was because the coach sucked and then the next year the same thing happened again, maybe the AD would find a new coach.

[billrquimby]

"This is what they do not do:

1. Respect the opinions of the public.

2. Grow animals.

3. Grow habitat.

4. Grow access."

 

 

 

Sorry guys, but our game and fish department has neither the ability to "grow animals" nor the authority to "grow habitat." They can "grow access," but historically the AGFD has not done so for some reason I cannot fathom. As for "respect the opinions of the public," be careful. We hunters are vastly outnumbered by other members of the public.

 

Bill Quimby

[bowhuntinmaniac]

Mandatory reporting will work if it has any backbone..........if you dont turn in yer survey card, you dont hunt......it's that simple.

[bowsniper]

crazy$coues -

 

We're both bowhunting fools, and care about Arizona hunting. No hard feeling about our debate!!

 

Mark