what unit?

[bonecollector777]

 

Posting unit numbers changes draw odds. Look at what has happened in 4b over the last 3-4 years.

And then see what happens when people see pics of Parker Colburns 370" bull.

And that's definitely not gonna help. Why would you tell everyone that? Very few people knew where that was killed.

[bonecollector777]

Well I heard jay scott told everyone so you posting it on coues isn't a big deal now. Wish people would keep quite about stuff like that but guess when it gets people to listen to your show its worth it to them. But as for the youth tag deal give them all 4b deer tags and have a hay day. It's just about getting out there anyway right? I remember when I said on here they needed to get rid of the junior hunt in 3c because these kids didn't deserve 180-200" deer and people were all mad at me saying it would never happen. Then it happened like 1-2 years later. Best thing to happen to 3c. Kids don't know they are killing a 200 inch buck or a 140 inch buck so give them lower quality units where they still get out and can see some deer and have fun. Leave the big stuff for guys that have worked for it and appreciate what they kill.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Well I heard jay scott told everyone so you posting it on coues isn't a big deal now. Wish people would keep quite about stuff like that but guess when it gets people to listen to your show its worth it to them. But as for the youth tag deal give them all 4b deer tags and have a hay day. It's just about getting out there anyway right? I remember when I said on here they needed to get rid of the junior hunt in 3c because these kids didn't deserve 180-200" deer and people were all mad at me saying it would never happen. Then it happened like 1-2 years later. Best thing to happen to 3c. Kids don't know they are killing a 200 inch buck or a 140 inch buck so give them lower quality units where they still get out and can see some deer and have fun. Leave the big stuff for guys that have worked for it and appreciate what they kill.

You can be sure.....if my kid is out in any unit and he has a shot at a 200" buck we ain't leaving it for the guys who have worked for it!!! Just saying if he got in position to shoot a 200" buck he deserves to let the lead fly!!! No animals out there have a reserved for the guys that have worked for it.

I am not a big fan of the father guided youth hunt where everything is set up for the kid to pull the trigger but if they are out there "hunting" they deserve to shoot as much as any hard core hunter out there!!!

[bonecollector777]

 

 

Well I heard jay scott told everyone so you posting it on coues isn't a big deal now. Wish people would keep quite about stuff like that but guess when it gets people to listen to your show its worth it to them. But as for the youth tag deal give them all 4b deer tags and have a hay day. It's just about getting out there anyway right? I remember when I said on here they needed to get rid of the junior hunt in 3c because these kids didn't deserve 180-200" deer and people were all mad at me saying it would never happen. Then it happened like 1-2 years later. Best thing to happen to 3c. Kids don't know they are killing a 200 inch buck or a 140 inch buck so give them lower quality units where they still get out and can see some deer and have fun. Leave the big stuff for guys that have worked for it and appreciate what they kill.

You can be sure.....if my kid is out in any unit and he has a shot at a 200" buck we ain't leaving it for the guys who have worked for it!!! Just saying if he got in position to shoot a 200" buck he deserves to let the lead fly!!! No animals out there have a reserved for the guys that have worked for it.

I am not a big fan of the father guided youth hunt where everything is set up for the kid to pull the trigger but if they are out there "hunting" they deserve to shoot as much as any hard core hunter out there!!!

Didn't say a kid can't shoot a 200 inch buck if he has the chance. But giving them specific hunts that up those chances over adults killing 200 inch bucks isn't right. Give the kids average hunts where they kill deer still and get out there and leave the general hunts for everyone. I'm mostly against the specific youth tags geared towards little kids killing big animals. If a kid draws a general tag and kills a big one more power to him

[Str8Shot]

 

 

 

 

But back to the kids, What hunt do you want them to have, a hunt where they see almost no deer at all and the success rate is 20% at best?? That's not doing much for are future hunters IMO, I would have no problem if for one year all they allowed to hunt in 6A was kids.

So you are saying the retention of future hunters is based off of success? I do not buy that at all and from what I have researched there is no evidence to prove that it does. There are enough Small game and Big game opportunities to hook, grow and retain future hunters without the youth Hunts for Deer and Elk. Part of the learning curve of any angling or hunting is the lesson in humility and understanding that there are no guarantees. Youth hunts are the equivalency of Giving all Kids who participate in a sport a trophy just so they stay interested, IMO, and that IMO is a bad habit.

Creed

 

I did not say I was against youth hunts... I stated there is not data to prove that youth deer and elk hunts create retention. If you have any data that can be validated and not just based on opinion .. please share it. I have assisted on youth hunts and have seen behaviors from some Dads that almost mirror those of the crazy moms with their daughters in beauty pageants.

You are completely wrong about your statement that deer shedding or just finishing shedding are less active. It is actually the opposite ... It is a big increase of testosterone that pushed them through the process, as it progresses bucks will tend to be more active and in larger bachelor herds sparring and testing each other for dominance... Browsing and grazing generally increases as well as they try to bulk up for the up coming rut.

You may not have said that you were against them but you did Call them the equivalence of participation trophies. Also, have you personally seen more deer activity in early October than you have from deer other times of the year? You are correct that testosterone spikes cause velvet to shed and also begin to spar but that does not mean it makes them be on their feet more. If anything it makes them more comfortable bedding in thick cover where their velvet is no longer sensitive and vulnerable and allows them to get away from the heat of the October sun.

 

I Know, have scouted, hunted, or assisted on hunts in a dozen or so units from the White Mountains south to the 36's ... Scouting mid to late Sept through Mid October The majority of the time in the majority of the units we frequent The bucks were herded up and more active throughout the day. There will always be factors that increase or decrease their activity but for the most part it is never much problem to find decent bachelor herds during that time of year. We also tend to stay out all day long and contrary to what many say about mid day movement in October not all bucks are bedding in those mid day hours. They really do not seem to change much until the fist hard pressure in the area comes from the first hunt... In most cases Youth Hunts .... I am not against a kid having a shot at a big buck ... but still I am not buying into the idea that youth hunts create more or retain more future hunters !!!

[firstcoueswas80]

 

 

 

Posting unit numbers changes draw odds. Look at what has happened in 4b over the last 3-4 years.

And then see what happens when people see pics of Parker Colburns 370" bull.

so why are you talking about it?

I had no idea what unit that bull came from until now!

[TOBY]

 

 

I won't go into hunt numbers, but years back AZOD came out and ruined a good local desert unit. Then its neighboring unit got hosed from the same guy"helping fellow hunters""just don't tell anyone". This year I couldnt even draw the rifle tag I have had every year since 1985 and G$F ruined it by putting a rut youth hunt there last year and this year again. Call me selfish but I will keep what spots I have left to myself.

 

50 rut tags and posse hunting with kids = A lot of mature deer being taken out of the gene pool= that many more putting in for the general tag=a even more decimated deer population than it was already before. Rut tags should be rotated thru units that can suffice them and changed each year so the unit can recover from being wiped out. When its not your backyard it doesnt bother you guys, but its mine and its disgusting what G$F have done to this unit. As for kid hunts I am all for them...been there done that. Rut tags for kids just learning to hunt I have my own opinion on that.

 

I could not disagree more. The unit your talking about is in the middle of a 15year rebound. I too have been hunting this unit for 20years. The last few years I have seen more bucks than ever before.. Even with the youth rut tags the success rate is still very low. The mule deer foundation is doing a giant water project this weekend. I think this unit will only get better. Plus most people either complain about access and/or road hunt. Both drive the deer sighing and success rate into to tank.

What better way to intro kids to hunting that letting them hunt with perfect weather and loads of deer running amuck.

 

OH that's the unit you were alluding too. Well I am putting in for that unit next year

Not the unit I am taking about. I grew up in 20c and have watched tag numbers plummit in the last 20 years. Other than the half of the unit blocked by all the maughn ranches. The first hunt should be a junior hunt followed by one general hunt.total tags maybe 500. Not 1200 including a rut hunt. And I did my share of kid hunts with mine. And it was in the general hunts most of tge time.

[TOBY]

On a side note. When they had a rut hunt 15 years ago in said area I blew a stalk on a massive 6x8 muley. Next day a ten year old local boy goes and shoots him. After he already wounded 2 other big bucks earlier in the hunt. This deer wound up being in the family 5 years ago by chance of marriage so I still see it. The boy has never came close to topping this animal and pretty much doesnt hunt much now.

[oz31p]

Yes we are talking about 20c. If your not seeing deer your doing something wrong.

 

you drew 30 consecutive tags and now your bitter about 50 youth rut tags??

 

To say1/2 the unit is blocked off is an exaggeration. If the public land be hind the ranches is so magical there are plenty of places to walk around the private.

 

I don't see the point that the kid that killed a buck out from under you never topped it.

[TOBY]

No point just a story. I still find my deer, but nothing close to the 80s and 90s.

[oz31p]

No point just a story. I still find my deer, but nothing close to the 80s and 90s.

That's a common belief states wide. In my opinion 1/2 it's rose colored glasses. People remember their glory days fondly. The other half is the drought.

 

They have started in the right direction in 18b. They combine both general hunts and reduced the tags but the youth hunt is still last.

[Red Sparky]

So to answer the original question of why not to give out unit numbers here is my perspective. I use to muzzle loader hunt a unit here for elk where I usually drew every year, 200 tags with about 500 applicants putting in for it. Not a very popular unit but a few elk in there to be able to get on them every year. I love hunting and chasing the animals even if I am not successful. I gave people information about the unit in general forums on different websites. Then there was the TV show where the bull was snuck up on and shot pretty close range during the archery hunt. Now there are still the same 200 tags with over 1500 people putting in for them. I haven't drawn that unit since so I went to another unit. Again not a very popular unit but enough elk in there to have some fun. So enjoy the stories, the unit shouldn't matter the least bit in the story.

[Flatlander]

 

 

Posting unit numbers changes draw odds. Look at what has happened in 4b over the last 3-4 years.

And then see what happens when people see pics of Parker Colburns 370" bull.

And that's definitely not gonna help. Why would you tell everyone that? Very few people knew where that was killed.

I did it just for you Blake.

[AzDiamondHeat]

So to answer the original question of why not to give out unit numbers here is my perspective. I use to muzzle loader hunt a unit here for elk where I usually drew every year, 200 tags with about 500 applicants putting in for it. Not a very popular unit but a few elk in there to be able to get on them every year. I love hunting and chasing the animals even if I am not successful. I gave people information about the unit in general forums on different websites. Then there was the TV show where the bull was snuck up on and shot pretty close range during the archery hunt. Now there are still the same 200 tags with over 1500 people putting in for them. I haven't drawn that unit since so I went to another unit. Again not a very popular unit but enough elk in there to have some fun. So enjoy the stories, the unit shouldn't matter the least bit in the story.

So there was a TV show about your unit? You dont think that had more to do with it than you telling a few people online? How many of the neighboring units also went up in applications?

 

The stats just don't support the hyperbole of secrecy.

 

There are no secrets anymore.

[Flatlander]

 

So to answer the original question of why not to give out unit numbers here is my perspective. I use to muzzle loader hunt a unit here for elk where I usually drew every year, 200 tags with about 500 applicants putting in for it. Not a very popular unit but a few elk in there to be able to get on them every year. I love hunting and chasing the animals even if I am not successful. I gave people information about the unit in general forums on different websites. Then there was the TV show where the bull was snuck up on and shot pretty close range during the archery hunt. Now there are still the same 200 tags with over 1500 people putting in for them. I haven't drawn that unit since so I went to another unit. Again not a very popular unit but enough elk in there to have some fun. So enjoy the stories, the unit shouldn't matter the least bit in the story.

So there was a TV show about your unit? You dont think that had more to do with it than you telling a few people online? How many of the neighboring units also went up in applications?

 

The stats just don't support the hyperbole of secrecy.

 

There are no secrets anymore.

Nope. Oh well.