what unit?

[trphyhntr]

They already have the tag pass down, if it's so important the kid has a trophy hunt pass it down when dad gets one.

[Str8Shot]

Creed

 

I did not say I was against youth hunts... I stated there is not data to prove that youth deer and elk hunts create retention. If you have any data that can be validated and not just based on opinion .. please share it. I have assisted on youth hunts and have seen behaviors from some Dads that almost mirror those of the crazy moms with their daughters in beauty pageants.

You are completely wrong about your statement that deer shedding or just finishing shedding are less active. It is actually the opposite ... It is a big increase of testosterone that pushed them through the process, as it progresses bucks will tend to be more active and in larger bachelor herds sparring and testing each other for dominance... Browsing and grazing generally increases as well as they try to bulk up for the up coming rut.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

If killing the animal was the whole focus of the hunt then some of you are really missing out on hunting......lots more to hunting than just the kill.

None of my boys would ever hunt again if it depended on success.......Lord knows I have botched many a hunt with them, but the kill has never been the "focus"........

[AzDiamondHeat]

Posting unit numbers changes draw odds. Look at what has happened in 4b over the last 3-4 years.

 

 

What happened in 4b? Tag numbers have decreased but applications have not increased. The decrease in tag numbers has nothing to do with people posting up success pictures. EVERYONE knows what is available in 4b. Those who choose to hunt it typically do it for convenience. FEW are looking for trophies in 4b. Or 4a....

 

 

2012

4a

243 tags

2048 1&2 choice

 

4b

150 tags

1020 1&2 choice

 

 

2013

4a

292 tags

2314 1&2 choice

 

4b

175 tags

1076 1&2 choice

 

2014

4a

166 tags

1920 1&2 choice

 

4b

125 tags

1020 1&2 choice

 

2015

4a

166 tags

1956 1&2 choice

 

4b

125 tags

1119 1&2 choice

[AzDiamondHeat]

HOWEVER.....

 

I DO agree with you that it sure FEELS like the rim has been overrun with hunters, but that has way more to do with all the yahoos on their screaming death machines than anything else.

 

THAT has increased 10 fold over the last several years. Because of the stupidity of many of these "people" I would not be surprised to see new regulations coming soon. I won't go NEAR that place on a weekend....

[Str8Shot]

One of the most fun hunts I ever assisted on was an unsuccessful Youth Hunt with a friend and his son. Hi son was 14 and well versed on hunting after growing up hunting small game, dove, and javelina. He had been on several Deer and Elk hunts with his dad always asking questions and learning. When the time for his hunt came, he was the one in charge. He had been on all the scouting trips and he chose where we would be hunting each day... The kid was all in when it came to trying to fill his tag... long hikes .. long glassing ... long hours in the field and you would not catch him napping... Heck two bucks he passed up on the first day he glassed while we were both napping in the shade. When finally faced with a shot on a quality buck, he knew he did not feel comfortable making, he suggested the approach to close the distance and honestly there was probably no better approach. Him and his dad got to with in 150 yards and other than his dads words of support he chose his shot... It missed high right over the back with no chance for a follow up that day. After seeing that buck he chose to stay on his trail the rest of the hunt passing up several other bucks in the process. Since that hunt ( This year he turned 18 ) he has put tags on 2 Bucks, both on General hunts, but when it comes to excitement talking about hunts around the campfire , in his own words " That unsuccessful hunt was his best Hunt"

 

 

p.s. IMO on general hunts you can give a LOT MORE examples and lessons on what NOT to do more often it seems

[AzDiamondHeat]

I would give up ALL of my hunts to help my kids hunt, if they were so inclined to do so.

 

I have spent many miserable days and nights in the woods helping OTHER peoples kids, and would gladly do so at any opportunity.

 

And I would tell you what unit it was in.....lol

[creed_az_88]

 

 

 

 

 

But back to the kids, What hunt do you want them to have, a hunt where they see almost no deer at all and the success rate is 20% at best?? That's not doing much for are future hunters IMO, I would have no problem if for one year all they allowed to hunt in 6A was kids.

So you are saying the retention of future hunters is based off of success? I do not buy that at all and from what I have researched there is no evidence to prove that it does. There are enough Small game and Big game opportunities to hook, grow and retain future hunters without the youth Hunts for Deer and Elk. Part of the learning curve of any angling or hunting is the lesson in humility and understanding that there are no guarantees. Youth hunts are the equivalency of Giving all Kids who participate in a sport a trophy just so they stay interested, IMO, and that IMO is a bad habit.

Creed

 

I did not say I was against youth hunts... I stated there is not data to prove that youth deer and elk hunts create retention. If you have any data that can be validated and not just based on opinion .. please share it. I have assisted on youth hunts and have seen behaviors from some Dads that almost mirror those of the crazy moms with their daughters in beauty pageants.

You are completely wrong about your statement that deer shedding or just finishing shedding are less active. It is actually the opposite ... It is a big increase of testosterone that pushed them through the process, as it progresses bucks will tend to be more active and in larger bachelor herds sparring and testing each other for dominance... Browsing and grazing generally increases as well as they try to bulk up for the up coming rut.

 

You may not have said that you were against them but you did Call them the equivalence of participation trophies. Also, have you personally seen more deer activity in early October than you have from deer other times of the year? You are correct that testosterone spikes cause velvet to shed and also begin to spar but that does not mean it makes them be on their feet more. If anything it makes them more comfortable bedding in thick cover where their velvet is no longer sensitive and vulnerable and allows them to get away from the heat of the October sun.

[creed_az_88]

But that is only my opinion. Please inform me if I'm COMPLETELY WRONG again.

[6ANut]

and this is why I mainly stick with saying " Congrats on a great animal and Thanks for sharing." on so many of my posts. All over kids.

 

I like this little study since most of you seem to just be saying your opinions.

 

http://1source.basspro.com/index.php/component/k2/239-hunting-info/2626-5-stages-of-a-hunter-which-one-are-you-blog

[trphyhntr]

I'd bet most kids that shoot a big one off the bat are more likely to stop hunting after that over a kid who worked for a 2x2

[ready2hunt]

and this is why I mainly stick with saying " Congrats on a great animal and Thanks for sharing." on so many of my posts. All over kids.

 

I like this little study since most of you seem to just be saying your opinions.

 

http://1source.basspro.com/index.php/component/k2/239-hunting-info/2626-5-stages-of-a-hunter-which-one-are-you-blog

 

 

mic drop

[trphyhntr]

and this is why I mainly stick with saying " Congrats on a great animal and Thanks for sharing." on so many of my posts. All over kids.

 

I like this little study since most of you seem to just be saying your opinions.

 

http://1source.basspro.com/index.php/component/k2/239-hunting-info/2626-5-stages-of-a-hunter-which-one-are-you-blog

but did you pass down your antelope tag for your kid to kill? Uh oh according to that you're not a sportsman

[naturebob]

First the hardest thing, You have to draw the dang tag. If its Elk or Ant. whats the difference, Your not gonna draw it for a long time anyway.................BOB!

[Str8Shot]

 

and this is why I mainly stick with saying " Congrats on a great animal and Thanks for sharing." on so many of my posts. All over kids.

 

I like this little study since most of you seem to just be saying your opinions.

 

http://1source.basspro.com/index.php/component/k2/239-hunting-info/2626-5-stages-of-a-hunter-which-one-are-you-blog

 

 

mic drop

 

LOL ... This is still a Theory just at stated at the end ... and one that still does not show an valid data that YOUTH HUNTS create greeter retention of Hunters... IT is my theory based of my experiences and facts through my life so far ( not an opinion ) that youth hunters growing into adult hunters have way more to do with the Parent and the Quality of the Overall experience not just A higher Success Rate of a youth only hunt ... I know plenty of young adults that never hunted small game, birds, who never got into the full experience of the outdoors, yet have tagged a Buck off a youth Hunt and now do not Hunt at all . I also know plenty of young adults that hunted small game, did lots of camping and really got into the experience but did not even start hunting big game until their late teens and are now die hard hunters. I will stick with my statement that I have not seen any valid data to support that youth hunts add to retention...

 

Furthermore, if I did follow the contrasting logic on youth hunts. I could come to the conclusion, that those arguing against me would be unsuccessful of creating the passion in a youth hunter that molds them into a lifetime hunter without youth only hunts.