Draw for Archery Deer from now on....

[BowNut]

Not to sure I understand some G&F's decision making. I have never been a big G&F hater ether but some of you may remember me posting about Usery archery range closing. Well we had contacted G&F about this and they kept bringing up that bowhunters were on a decline and they had started a huge archery program to get people mostly kids in to archery. They even hired Denise who is in charge of the program.

 

Now this is were I get confused now they are saying there are to many bowhunters killing to many deer? Or am I not seeing it correctly? This was less than a year ago that all this went on with the range so I guess there new archery program must really be working.

 

I can kinda see were the rifle only guys think its a great idea for us to have to draw because they do. But at the same time do what I did years ago buy a bow and extend your season. What I don't get is how anyone knows the true numbers of deer killed and how many hunters are hunting in a particular unit when all they have is a half hearted flawed way of doing it. We can sit here and say there was to many hunters were I hunt and then talk to a guy in the same unit that never saw another hunter were he was hunting. I guess what I'm trying to say is how can they make a huge decision like this if they do not have true statistics on the number of hunters in a unit or deer harvest numbers! At the same time this could be the first step to get better statistics but I do not think its the answer.

I could be wrong and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am.

[COOSEFAN]

I am of teh opinion that they made the changes and we have to deal with it now. i went to meetings and listend but they made the stupid changes. Now for the future what I think will happen. You will WEED out the hobby hunters with a bow. People will make a choice do I want to use a rifle or a bow. The true archery hunters will not blink an eyelash. I for one cannot say that I will put in for archery deer only. But I know guys that will. The BIGGEST problem I have with the whole process is the way they collect the data. It's a joke! But that said we are where we are. We will deal with it and I dont know if anyone noticed but you will be able to archery hunt 13b now which we couldn't before.

 

 

Good points. I am also pumped about being able to hunt there with a bow. We'll also be able to hunt 8 and 9 in January.

 

 

There's the silver lining! There will be some big ol' bucks prancin' around in January, thinkin' they are safe like they always have been........and WHACK.....my arrow slips through their ribs!!! I wouldn't mind that at all! I still don't like changes of any kind though, but I didn't go to the meetings and speak up, so I wouldn't feel right complainin'! JIM>

[billrquimby]

I happen to believe that it healthier for the gene pool for the little guys to have of a chance, just my opinion.

 

Thats not the point of this thread though. How do YOU feel about the new archery changes? What do you feel it will do for the herds in the affected units. We haven't heard much from you on this one Tony. What do you think?

 

Donnie

 

Biology 101:

Genes are genes. They aren't like steak and get better with age. Put a few drops of sperm from a 1-yr. old buck in a test tube and a few from the buck when he's 4, freeze them and you won't see a difference in the offspring's genes if you impregnate the same doe over two years with sperm from each tube.

 

My opinion on the archery deal and deer permits in general is quite simple:

 

Each person should get ONE permit annually for ONE season with ONE weapon in ONE unit and be allowed ONE deer -- the same as it is for elk.

 

See, told you it was simple. -TONY

 

Tony, I totally agree about one permit per species per year.

 

As for killing spikes, it's a sign of a healthy herd when a significant number of a species taken by hunters are young animals.

 

It's when the average age of deer increases that we should worry because it means recruitment is falling.

 

I have killed a few trophy deer (fifteen different types from the USA, Mexico, Canada, Argentina, Spain, Mongolia, South Africa and New Zealand), and hope to do so again in Arizona if a bowhunter doesn't draw my tag. However, if I get the opportunity to hunt deer here again I won't pass up a spike after the first day.

 

I've graduated to being a meat hunter and I can't eat antlers.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[DesertBull]

There is nothing wrong with "hobby" hunters. You shouldn't have to breath and crap hunting 24/7 in order to be able to enjoy it. In fact, I think they get more fun out of it a lot of times than the so-called "serious" hunters who put so much pressure on themselves to kill a monster that they often don't enjoy the hunt at all.

 

Most people start out as "hobby" hunters and progress into more advanced, skilled hunters. You don't come out of the womb slaying 200" muleys on public land.

 

People always want to weed out hunters until there is something at the ballot box that needs our attention. Then they plead and beg for all the hunters to join us in this great cause so save our great sport. You can't have it both ways.

 

There is also nothing wrong with killing a spike. It's your tag, do with it as you wish.

 

I think the draw for archery has good and bad points, but mostly bad.

[donniedent]

I went a did a little reaserch and found that I am only partly right about the yearling issue. It seems that during times of good food availability it is good to take spikes. Spikes that are produced during good years are actually genetically infirior when it comes to antler growth. During bad years spikes may account for up to 80% of the total yearling population so it is especially bad to take them during a drought because some do have good genetics and are only spikes because of poor nutrtion. So its the yearling forkies and better that we should aviod shooting because they have the better genes to pass on to thier offspring. I still contend that it is better to take mature animals who have had the chance to pass thier genes on to the next generation. Genetic diversity promotes healthier animals.

[m77]

High Country Coues, did you actually imply that hunting pressure during the rut changes rutting habits and lessens the ability for mature buck to impregnant does. I made that same assumption a month ago and Outdoor Writer told me it had nothing to due with the decrease in the deer population in Arizona. He post interesting articles by Expert writers stating the water/rain conditions is the reason for the decline. I am also a believer in hunting during the rut HAS a direct effect on the ability for mature buck to spread those great genes.

 

Why does G&F allow hunting during the rut???

 

Why does G&F allow hunting within 500 yards of a water hole (archery or rifle)?????

 

Why does G&F allow placing perminent tree stands or ground blinds on public land?????

 

We have become our own worst enemies with websites like Coueswhitetail. We post pictures of game at water and salt. We argue over hunting rights at those water holes and salt licks on public land. Hunters seem to think putting up a tree stand or ground blind gives them exclusive right to a water hole or and area that they spread their salt. We advertize on this website every day the problems associated with our SPORT. Game and Fish doesn't have to hold meetings, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS READ OUR POSTS.

 

I learned a lot about Coues hunting from this website the first couple of years I monitored it, the last number of years I watched a decline in the quality of this websites posts. It's fun to brag about how much game is coming into a salt lick or water hole and post those neat photos, but there is always a consiqence (spelling check needed) for not keeping ourselves in check.

 

The single most important statement I continue to hear today is that we all need to attend those G&F meetings in large numbers. Maybe we can have a forum title G&F Meetings, put more effort in recruiting members to attend, and have a consolidated agenda with an articulate spokesperson that everyone supports at the meeting.

[azryan]

they should do the archery draw by REGIONS and not units...

[donniedent]

Thats is an idea I have not heard here yet! Great post, somehting to think about.

 

Donnie

[azryan]

Thats is an idea I have not heard here yet! Great post, somehting to think about.

 

Donnie

 

 

if they did it this way it would ease my mind about the subject

[m77]

Why not set a statewide quota? Everyone must register their kill. Once the quota is met the season is closed.

[donniedent]

You know, I said this in a different thread and I'll say it again here. G&F's biggest downfall is not providing us with a good explenation of why they do things. They don't tell us how they project the deer to be affected. They don't give us anything. They hold a few meetings and do what they want anyway. Why not send out a statement, telling us all the reasons they are doing what they are doing. Why not inform us as to how they plan on structuring the draw. Its seems like they want to accomplish a goal and they step all over thier biggest supports to attain that goal. Just tell us what the heck you're doing and maybe you'll get more support!!

 

Donnie

[donniedent]

Why not set a statewide quota? Everyone must register their kill. Once the quota is met the season is closed.

 

Sounds like a free for all, kinda scary.

 

Donnie

[m77]

A free for all is what we currently have. No registration, no quota.

[DesertBull]

High Country Coues, did you actually imply that hunting pressure during the rut changes rutting habits and lessens the ability for mature buck to impregnant does. I made that same assumption a month ago and Outdoor Writer told me it had nothing to due with the decrease in the deer population in Arizona. He post interesting articles by Expert writers stating the water/rain conditions is the reason for the decline. I am also a believer in hunting during the rut HAS a direct effect on the ability for mature buck to spread those great genes.

 

Why does G&F allow hunting during the rut???

 

Why does G&F allow hunting within 500 yards of a water hole (archery or rifle)?????

 

Why does G&F allow placing perminent tree stands or ground blinds on public land?????

We have become our own worst enemies with websites like Coueswhitetail. We post pictures of game at water and salt. We argue over hunting rights at those water holes and salt licks on public land. Hunters seem to think putting up a tree stand or ground blind gives them exclusive right to a water hole or and area that they spread their salt. We advertize on this website every day the problems associated with our SPORT. Game and Fish doesn't have to hold meetings, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS READ OUR POSTS.

 

I learned a lot about Coues hunting from this website the first couple of years I monitored it, the last number of years I watched a decline in the quality of this websites posts. It's fun to brag about how much game is coming into a salt lick or water hole and post those neat photos, but there is always a consiqence (spelling check needed) for not keeping ourselves in check.

 

The single most important statement I continue to hear today is that we all need to attend those G&F meetings in large numbers. Maybe we can have a forum title G&F Meetings, put more effort in recruiting members to attend, and have a consolidated agenda with an articulate spokesperson that everyone supports at the meeting.

 

 

Why stop there?

 

Why not stop hunting with scoped rifles, Compound bows and limit binocs to 10x magnification. Make it illegal to shoot over 200 yards.

How about no shooting after 12:00pm to give the animals a chance to water and feed in the evening without pressure?

How about no camping in the forest. Get a motel or stay at the KOA?

Why are we hunting antelope and sheep at all? Their numbers are falling fast.

 

You are right, we are our own worst enemy, but not because of the hunting methods we choose, but because we are constantly putting each other down for the methods we choose.

 

Again, if you have a moral problem with these issues and choose not to use any or all of them, I applaud and respect you and your choices. Please do the same for others.

[Redman]

There is nothing wrong with "hobby" hunters. You shouldn't have to breath and crap hunting 24/7 in order to be able to enjoy it. In fact, I think they get more fun out of it a lot of times than the so-called "serious" hunters who put so much pressure on themselves to kill a monster that they often don't enjoy the hunt at all.

 

Most people start out as "hobby" hunters and progress into more advanced, skilled hunters. You don't come out of the womb slaying 200" muleys on public land.

 

People always want to weed out hunters until there is something at the ballot box that needs our attention. Then they plead and beg for all the hunters to join us in this great cause so save our great sport. You can't have it both ways.

 

There is also nothing wrong with killing a spike. It's your tag, do with it as you wish.

 

I think the draw for archery has good and bad points, but mostly bad.

 

 

I agree, I like to think of myself as once a "hobby" hunter with a bow. All I knew was, once the rifle season was over, I wanted to hunt some more, I bought a used bow (which was the wrong draw length, bought the cheapest broadheads, shot it maybe a week before going hunting etc...), now after 7 years, two new bows, and after a few animals taken with a bow, I know what I am going to put in for..... see you all in January....the only thing I regret is not being able to take my son hunting with a bow so he to can learn while also being able to hunt with a rifle.

 

But please answer me this one thing, when are all the unit going to a draw??? Does anybody know?

 

Redman