Draw for Archery Deer from now on....

[KGAINES]

Wonder how this will affect the 10% non-resident draw chances.

[jamaro]

I have been reading this thread and this is the same thing NM went thru a few years ago... When we went to a draw I was pretty concerned about not getting a tag but they have adjusted the number so pretty much everybody gets a tag. In fact, we have had leftover tags every year. Personally, I think it was hard for them to manage the herd without knowing how many hunters were in what units and what the success rates were. In NM, it does seem that the premium units might be easier to draw because what would happen in the past is everybody would put in for draw units and if they didn't draw they could but a OTC tag. Now people don't mess with the premium tags because they are afraid of not drawing anything...

 

As far as the money issue... It might decrease revenue because you are not going to have people that did draw anything be able to buy over the counter tags. That and NR will have to plan much better. I think AZ gets a ton of January NR Bow hunters because people have time that time of year and they want to get out of the snow. I know that if I didn't draw for a elk or antelope tag I would be hunting AZ during the early seasons.

 

Rifle vs. Archery Tags - For me it is all about equal harvest not equal opportunity. That being said does AZ have a real good grasp of how many bow hunters are taking animals and do they know what units these animals are coming from? In NM, it used to be that you would basically purchase a state wide bow tag and you could kill any deer as long as the season was open. It didn't matter what unit you were in. So if you were Dove Hunting(Casey) and you came across a buck you could let the air out of him or if you were hunting elk and you came across a buck you light him up. I think that was okay but there was no way for the game and fish to pro-actively manage the herd. They would look at the optional harvest reports and then react. They often reacted too late, not at all or too harshly.

 

J-

[donniedent]

Wonder how this will affect the 10% non-resident draw chances.

 

I think its gonna killem' on the Kiabab. What most residents will end up doing is putting the Kiabab hunt for a third or forth choice. I think with the projected numbers in 12a that only leaves 185 tags for NR's. Thats a fraction of the NR's that go up there now. Also, NR's aren't gonna burn any points they have on an archery hunt, no matter where it is.

 

It will be interesting to see how things play out.

 

Donnie

[jamaro]

If that is the case it will be interesting to see if the outfitters that guide that area are going to get mobilized and fight this. I am sure it is going to be alot of money out of there pockets.

In NM, that is why we have the NR pool for guided hunters, because the outfitters raged.

jason

[muley]

Well, this has been interesting, I knew I would stir some pots but I didnt realize this many.

I hunt and live up here in the units 8, 10, 7, 9 and have seen the archery hunt just destroy the rut for the mule deer.

I've been hunting the archery hunt in 10 for a long long time and have many p&y animals to show for it but the amount of pressure and lions have destroyed what used to be a great hunt, I did say used to be. I use to do nothing but the archery hunt and I moved over to rifle coues for some privacy.. I heard someone say that I must be a

tree hugger, that was a good one... Sorry to spoil your thoughts but I'm as gung ho about hunting as the next probably more. People dont fill tags and everyone comes up to try to stick a spike, and we wonder where all our big deer went???

It's not rocket science, over crowding on hunts creates pressure, lack of breeding, lions eat lots of deer, and elk are bigger and more equip to survive over a weak muley, oh ya and we have lots of wild burros to chase off wildlife from waterholes being they are very territorial. So next time you "think" you got it all figured out come back to reality and call me if you find a fresh lion kill or track... and we will try to solve a piece of the problem...

[donniedent]

If that is the case it will be interesting to see if the outfitters that guide that area are going to get mobilized and fight this. I am sure it is going to be alot of money out of there pockets.

In NM, that is why we have the NR pool for guided hunters, because the outfitters raged.

jason

 

I don't thinks so. I don't think there is much demand for guided archery muley hunts. If anything they'll probably get more calls. Besides, the fight is over... its a done deal. Gotta just work with it now. We'll find a way to benefit from it, I know I'm gonna try to figure something out.

 

"People dont fill tags and everyone comes up to try to stick a spike, and we wonder where all our big deer went???"

 

That is an understatement!!!!! Let em grow!

[Outdoor Writer]

"People dont fill tags and everyone comes up to try to stick a spike, and we wonder where all our big deer went???"

 

That is an understatement!!!!! Let em grow!

 

Why? If someone pays for their own hunting license/permit and wants to fill their tag with a spike, what concern is that for anyone else? They are entitled to kill one LEGAL deer, and what they kill is their own business. Geez, all the "what did it score" folks should be tickled; that means the spike-killing dude left all the big ones alone. -TONY

[tjhunt2]

"People dont fill tags and everyone comes up to try to stick a spike, and we wonder where all our big deer went???"

 

That is an understatement!!!!! Let em grow!

 

Why? If someone pays for their own hunting license/permit and wants to fill their tag with a spike, what concern is that for anyone else? They are entitled to kill one LEGAL deer, and what they kill is their own business. Geez, all the "what did it score" folks should be tickled; that means the spike-killing dude left all the big ones alone. -TONY

 

I agree with you Tony on this. I love to eat deer and would just as much put meat in the freezer than hold out for the big one that never came. I have shot my share over the years and would like to kill a wall hanger but my wife and I like to eat deer. I will let the spikes live for another season.

[donniedent]

"People dont fill tags and everyone comes up to try to stick a spike, and we wonder where all our big deer went???"

 

That is an understatement!!!!! Let em grow!

 

Why? If someone pays for their own hunting license/permit and wants to fill their tag with a spike, what concern is that for anyone else? They are entitled to kill one LEGAL deer, and what they kill is their own business. Geez, all the "what did it score" folks should be tickled; that means the spike-killing dude left all the big ones alone. -TONY

 

Well thats your opinion Tony and you're entilted to it. I happen to believe that it healthier for the gene pool for the little guys to have of a chance, just my opinion.

 

Thats not the point of this thread though. How do YOU feel about the new archery changes? What do you feel it will do for the herds in the affected units. We haven't heard much from you on this one Tony. What do you think?

 

Donnie

[Outdoor Writer]

I happen to believe that it healthier for the gene pool for the little guys to have of a chance, just my opinion.

 

Thats not the point of this thread though. How do YOU feel about the new archery changes? What do you feel it will do for the herds in the affected units. We haven't heard much from you on this one Tony. What do you think?

 

Donnie

 

Biology 101:

Genes are genes. They aren't like steak and get better with age. Put a few drops of sperm from a 1-yr. old buck in a test tube and a few from the buck when he's 4, freeze them and you won't see a difference in the offspring's genes if you impregnate the same doe over two years with sperm from each tube.

 

My opinion on the archery deal and deer permits in general is quite simple:

 

Each person should get ONE permit annually for ONE season with ONE weapon in ONE unit and be allowed ONE deer -- the same as it is for elk.

 

See, told you it was simple. -TONY

[bowhuntinmaniac]

"How do YOU feel about the new archery changes? What do you feel it will do for the herds in the affected units."

The herds will not be affected by the changes to the bowhunters. We will not be allowed to kill 1 deer to every 5 that rifle hunters take without repercussions.

These changes were not made to better the deer population, as can be seen that G&F did not use any type of biologic information to determine this, it was done as a political maneuver.

Our G&f went from managing game to managing hunters and with that we will all suffer until they come to their senses.

[hunter4life]

"Our G&f went from managing game to managing hunters and with that we will all suffer until they come to their senses."

 

When hunters are one of the tools used to manage the game, you have to manage the hunters. Managing hunters (and all of their conflicting wants) is probably G&F's hardest job because no matter what G&F does somebody is going to be mad at them.

 

Arizona is facing a supply (deer) and demand (hunters wanting tags) issue and the demand is growing larger while the supply is not. The G&F will have to impose restrictions at some point and IMO it is better to do it before the deer population takes too big of a hit from overhunting. If they are going to go to a draw system I think they should just do it across the board. Then it would be like OutdoorWriter said, "ONE permit annually for ONE season with ONE weapon in ONE unit," which makes sense to me.

[donniedent]

I happen to believe that it healthier for the gene pool for the little guys to have of a chance, just my opinion.

 

Thats not the point of this thread though. How do YOU feel about the new archery changes? What do you feel it will do for the herds in the affected units. We haven't heard much from you on this one Tony. What do you think?

 

Donnie

 

Biology 101:

Genes are genes. They aren't like steak and get better with age. Put a few drops of sperm from a 1-yr. old buck in a test tube and a few from the buck when he's 4, freeze them and you won't see a difference in the offspring's genes if you impregnate the same doe over two years with sperm from each tube.

 

My opinion on the archery deal and deer permits in general is quite simple:

 

Each person should get ONE permit annually for ONE season with ONE weapon in ONE unit and be allowed ONE deer -- the same as it is for elk.

 

See, told you it was simple. -TONY

 

 

Never said genes got better with age Tony. When a buck is a year and a half old he breaks from the doe's and moves to a different area (herd). This prevents inter-breeding, which in turn promots genetic diversity. If we shoot these yearlings they never have a chance to take thier genes to a different area and breed with different doe's, spreading thier genes and strengthening the deer herds. If we don't give these young deer an opportunity to spread thier genes it will weaken the herds by only allowing the same bucks to breed year after year. This not only effects the bucks but the doe's as well. You get the same bucks breeding all the doe's and you'll eventually have inter-breeding which leads to genetically weak animals. This is why they only shoot mature bucks on Texas ranches or infirior bucks to prevent them from spreading thier genes. This is also why Texas ranchers trade mature bucks to other ranches so they can diversify the gene pool. This is all basic biology and I would figure you'd know it Tony.

 

Donnie

 

Also I like you idea about the hunt structure, the only thing I'd do differently is to add a special draw for the rut and to allow those drawn for the oct. hunt to also hunt the early hunt with a bow. Then if they don't tag out with a bow they can use the same tag for the rifle hunt. Just like Wyoming does it. Whyoming has also been successful with point restrictions in certain areas. They know what they're doing.

[jnobleinaz]

I am of the opinion that they made the changes and we have to deal with it now. i went to meetings and listend but they made the stupid changes. Now for the future what I think will happen. You will WEED out the hobby hunters with a bow. People will make a choice do I want to use a rifle or a bow. The true archery hunters will not blink an eyelash. I for one cannot say that I will put in for archery deer only. But I know guys that will. The BIGGEST problem I have with the whole process is the way they collect the data. It's a joke! But that said we are where we are. We will deal with it and I dont know if anyone noticed but you will be able to archery hunt 13b now which we couldn't before.

[donniedent]

I am of teh opinion that they made the changes and we have to deal with it now. i went to meetings and listend but they made the stupid changes. Now for the future what I think will happen. You will WEED out the hobby hunters with a bow. People will make a choice do I want to use a rifle or a bow. The true archery hunters will not blink an eyelash. I for one cannot say that I will put in for archery deer only. But I know guys that will. The BIGGEST problem I have with the whole process is the way they collect the data. It's a joke! But that said we are where we are. We will deal with it and I dont know if anyone noticed but you will be able to archery hunt 13b now which we couldn't before.

 

 

Good points. I am also pumped about being able to hunt there with a bow. We'll also be able to hunt 8 and 9 in January.