Elk hunting in Grizzly country, which pistol?

[IA Born]

A friend who used to do research in Alaska once told me he only ever carried a .357. I told him I didn't think that was enough gun to stop a grizzly. He said it wasn't for the grizzly. It was to shoot his friend in the leg so he could make a clean getaway! I'm still not sure if he was joking.

[Zeke-BE]

Get you one of these!

[Tac]

Odds are that you can't get your pistol out of your holster and fire an aimed shot in less than about three seconds--even if you have practiced a lot. That's about the time that it takes a grizz to cover 30 yards. If you want to carry a pistol for backup after using bear spray, that's OK, but your initial response should be with a bear spray canister--the kind that hangs from your belt and that can be triggered without having to remove and aim it.

 

Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker did recently dispatch a small brown bear with a 9mm handgun, but it required nine shots with special bad-butt Black Hills ammo, and he knew what he was doing. The bear never charged, but did stand up in its bed and behaved aggressively toward his clients (who fortuitously had fallen down to one side in the thick vegetation where they had stumbled upon the sleeping bear). He admitted that, had he been expecting the possibility of a bear encounter where he was taking his clients, he would carried a big bore rifle instead.

I beg to differ on shot on target time. I have timed to first shot hit numerous times at 1 second from leather carry holster, not my competition rig. I shoot tuesday night steel for about 3 years now and am much faster than I was when I was checking time to 1st shot. I regularly shoot stages at about 20 seconds for 20-28 shots while moving and enguageing targets from multiple areas. You work on your bear spray I will work on my lead spray and hope thats all we have to do is practice.

[Edge]

With several thousand hours logged in at the dojo, you wouldn't need a firearm...

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/japanese-man-uses-karate-skills-fight-off-snarling-095625206.html

 

And after kicking the bear's butt, mano y mano, the 63 year old took his fish too.haha

[billrquimby]

I've had two bad experiences with trying to kill black bears with .357 mags.

 

Both bears were in trees and both took six shots into their chests with no effect other than to make them them roaring angry. I finally handed my buddy his .30-06 and he killed the first bear. The other bear, years later, also took six .357 bullets into its chest before I borrowed my guide's .44 mag and blew it out of the tree.

 

When we skinned my friend's bear, we found five of his six pistol bullets had penetrated only the skin and fat before lodging against ribs without reaching a vital area. The sixth round made it through the lungs and ribs and stopped in shoulder muscle on the opposite side. It was the only shot that would have been fatal --- eventually.

 

With my bear, the only bullet that made it into the vitals was from my guide's .44 mag, and it exited the bear.

 

Take your .45.

 

Bill Quimby

[dustin25]

Obviously wasn't using hot loaded hard cast .357 ammo.... that's the key

[Str8Shot]

I've had two bad experiences with trying to kill black bears with .357 mags.

 

Both bears were in trees and both took six shots into their chests with no effect other than to make them them roaring angry. I finally handed my buddy his .30-06 and he killed the first bear. The other bear, years later, also took six .357 bullets into its chest before I borrowed my guide's .44 mag and blew it out of the tree.

 

When we skinned my friend's bear, we found five of his six pistol bullets had penetrated only the skin and fat before lodging against ribs without reaching a vital area. The sixth round made it through the lungs and ribs and stopped in shoulder muscle on the opposite side. It was the only shot that would have been fatal --- eventually.

 

With my bear, the only bullet that made it into the vitals was from my guide's .44 mag, and it exited the bear.

 

Take your .45.

 

Bill Quimby

What bullets .. Plenty of loads for .357 that should have no issue on Black or Brown Bear... I would be using at least a 6 inch barrel ... Not going to recommend a snub nose with 135 grain hollow points. Ammo is the key factor

[billrquimby]

Both bears were shot with S&W revolvers with a 6-inch barrels. I don't know what load my friend used, but my ammo was hand-loaded by Jensen's in Tucson with hard cast bullets. They were flat-nosed, not hollow points.

 

My friend's bear was a healthy 2-3 year old. Mine was a very large, old animal. Both had very thick layers of fat.

 

Bill Quimby

[Benbrown]

 

Odds are that you can't get your pistol out of your holster and fire an aimed shot in less than about three seconds--even if you have practiced a lot. That's about the time that it takes a grizz to cover 30 yards. If you want to carry a pistol for backup after using bear spray, that's OK, but your initial response should be with a bear spray canister--the kind that hangs from your belt and that can be triggered without having to remove and aim it.

 

Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker did recently dispatch a small brown bear with a 9mm handgun, but it required nine shots with special bad-butt Black Hills ammo, and he knew what he was doing. The bear never charged, but did stand up in its bed and behaved aggressively toward his clients (who fortuitously had fallen down to one side in the thick vegetation where they had stumbled upon the sleeping bear). He admitted that, had he been expecting the possibility of a bear encounter where he was taking his clients, he would carried a big bore rifle instead.

I beg to differ on shot on target time. I have timed to first shot hit numerous times at 1 second from leather carry holster, not my competition rig. I shoot tuesday night steel for about 3 years now and am much faster than I was when I was checking time to 1st shot. I regularly shoot stages at about 20 seconds for 20-28 shots while moving and enguageing targets from multiple areas. You work on your bear spray I will work on my lead spray and hope thats all we have to do is practice.

 

Well, then, my comment was not addressed to you. You are obviously a well-trained competitor. However there are a number of technical articles that have tested time to first shot from a holster for shooters who were qualifying for concealed carry licenses. Fewer than 10 percent of the persons tested could beat 3 seconds. Virtually all of those who did were competitive shooters. Significantly more than half of the instructors could not do it. The OP did not give the impression that the poster was anything more than a recreational pistol shooter.

 

There have been at least two peer-reviewed studies that have documented significantly more success and fewer injuries from bear attacks by those using bear spray as opposed to those using a firearm (rifles, as well as handguns). It's still a free country for the most part, and anyone is free to choose. However, I think that it's irresponsible to recommend a handgun as the primary response to a possible grizzly attack. Phil Shoemaker is around bears almost every day and he recommends bear spray over a handgun.

 

FWIW, I carry a handgun just about every day, and always when hunting, but in Situation One grizzly habitat, I have a canister of bear spray on my belt or my pack strap. And, if I am preparing for a trip into grizzly country, I do buy the practice canisters and refresh my response habits.

[MT_Sourdough]

ha, ha, ha. Some funny stuff here. Aw'heck, just bring your lucky rabbits foot.

[Edge]

Both bears were shot with S&W revolvers with a 6-inch barrels. I don't know what load my friend used, but my ammo was hand-loaded by Jensen's in Tucson with hard cast bullets. They were flat-nosed, not hollow points.

 

My friend's bear was a healthy 2-3 year old. Mine was a very large, old animal. Both had very thick layers of fat.

 

Bill Quimby

Ahhh good ol Jensen's

 

Bill, where you been? Don't wait so long between posts.

[Snapshot]

S&W .500 with custom 750 grain bullets. Just the sight of it will make the bear, tuck tail and run.

[CatfishKev]

 

Odds are that you can't get your pistol out of your holster and fire an aimed shot in less than about three seconds--even if you have practiced a lot. That's about the time that it takes a grizz to cover 30 yards. If you want to carry a pistol for backup after using bear spray, that's OK, but your initial response should be with a bear spray canister--the kind that hangs from your belt and that can be triggered without having to remove and aim it.

 

Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker did recently dispatch a small brown bear with a 9mm handgun, but it required nine shots with special bad-butt Black Hills ammo, and he knew what he was doing. The bear never charged, but did stand up in its bed and behaved aggressively toward his clients (who fortuitously had fallen down to one side in the thick vegetation where they had stumbled upon the sleeping bear). He admitted that, had he been expecting the possibility of a bear encounter where he was taking his clients, he would carried a big bore rifle instead.

I beg to differ on shot on target time. I have timed to first shot hit numerous times at 1 second from leather carry holster, not my competition rig. I shoot tuesday night steel for about 3 years now and am much faster than I was when I was checking time to 1st shot. I regularly shoot stages at about 20 seconds for 20-28 shots while moving and enguageing targets from multiple areas. You work on your bear spray I will work on my lead spray and hope thats all we have to do is practice.

 

 

Seems to me a grizz charge would likley happen while not actually expecting it. Although training does in fact help the real world scenerio I just can't help but think it would happen more like "What the Fu** is that noise?", you turn and see it charging you and it takes half a second to process what is actually happening then you reach for the gun while possibly pannicking and by the time you figure out whats going an and try to react you already burned a couple seconds. Good luck. I just hope I'm never in that situation with a wife, kids or client in tow. Scary no matter who you are and how much practice you've had.

[biglakejake]

https://youtu.be/i33DX9Wjd7E

[Cell4soul]

Thanks for all the feedback. Bear spray will likely be my first course of action. I am sure that no matter what I do, there isn't much that can prepare one for a heat of the moment charging bear. I will start my search for the right ammo for either of the pistols I do have.