PointGuard, good idea or money making scam?

[Capt. Don Martin]

Just wondering how sportsmen all over the state felt about the new PointGuard program that the AZGFD started as a way to generate more income?

 

Heard that some, like me, were upset in knowing that some folks are using (manipulating) this new program to their own personal and monetary gain.

 

It is suppose to be "insurance" but it is also a program by design, that is going to raise funds for the Department (and that's not all bad!)

 

Here is how it works..this is ONLY an example, but bet this has really happened.

 

A person has 18 deer bonus points. They only want to draw a Unit 13B (AZ Strip) deer tag. Lets call them Applicant A.

 

But they are offered a gob of money by someone (Applicant who has 13 bonus points who wants the THIRD best deer tag in Arizona, the late Kaibab west side tag and doesn't want to wait another 3-5 years to get it.

 

Applicant B knows that it is going to take 15 bonus points to get into the 20% pass draw, where 20 tags are going to be issued out of the 100 offered.

 

Applicant A and Applicant B apply together under PointGuard.

 

Their points are combined (31) and divided by two, as there are two applicants on this application.

 

That averages out to 15.5 which rounds up to 16 They know that last year, it took 15 points to get into the bonus point pass draw, so they are in!.

 

They applied for the late Kaibab tags and under the 20% pass rule, were in the max point group, so they draw. But Applicant A does NOT want a Kaibab tag, he only wants a Unit 13B tag, so he turns in the tag, and even gets ANOTHER bonus point!

 

Meanwhile Applicant B, who didn't want to play the draw game and didn't want to wait his time to get into the max pool, has a Unit 12A late west side tag, and is hunting this year. All it took was money... and someone with a lot of points who was willing to wait one more year to draw their Strip tag.

 

So my questions is this. Is this fair to all?

 

What if you as a sportsman don't know anyone who has a lot of points they are willing to share OR doesn't have the money to pay to be on the application that a person who has advertised on social media that they will share for the right amount of money?

 

G&F don't think this is a big problem now; but I think in the future you will see more and more folks on the Internet, networking to try and manipulate the system. Bottom line is that folks with a lot of disposable income can jump over the average sportsman, and I don't think that is right or fair.

 

This year I had 17 deer points but my lady friend didn't have enough points by herself to get into the 20% pass. Could we have "bundled up" and maybe got her a late Kaibab tag that she wants? The answer is yes, and it would have been legal to do so. But her and I both refused to sign up for the customer portal, and refused to pay the money for PointGuard.

 

Bottom line is that I drew a Strip tag but she didn't draw that late Kaibab tag. So be it.

 

I know that the AZGFD is facing some issues regarding decreased revenue streams.

 

PointGuard is by design, a program to increase that revenue stream. I was told that 4,500 people had already enrolled in it. Might not seem like a lot, but when folks use it for most if not all of their big game applications, then there is some serious money being raised.

 

As to I Support Wildlife program.. let me talk about that in another post.

 

Don Martin

 

 

[Big Browns]

I personally like the new point guard.

 

It's also not manipulation if it's allowed. It's no different than most or all government rules. You have to figure out how to use the system to serve you best. If you won't someone else will.

[Allforelk]

I have been lucky to draw the species I hunt without too many misses in the draw. I don't have a lot of points and dont have the same stake in this as others with many years/points ahead of me.

 

That being said, I agree with Big Browns. As of now, it's legal. If someone is on the bubble,wants to hold out for one more year and can earn what they would spend for a "lifetime tag", more power to them.

[rossislider]

Here is where this was discussed a few months ago.

 

http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/65834-point-guard/?hl=%2Bpoint+%2Bguard

[muledeerarea33?]

I'm not in the "it's legal so it's moral crowd" being the first of the month I saw lots of people using their snap card for junk food and sodas. Just cause it's legal, doesn't make it right. Point guard like gov assistance programs are set up for those who legitimately need it, not for those who want to work the system just because someone else will work it first. That's what's wrong with this country.

[bonecollector777]

I think it's been discussed pretty deeply so far. As long as the current rules stand as they are there will be abuse. There will be guys making a lot of money off of it. I really don't know who azgfd picked to design the program but they managed to pick some of the dumbest they have there. So many little things that could be done different that would fix the abuse and they act like they don't care. And then the part about how the tag is reissued is mind blowing as well. But I don't really expect much more from azgfd. As long as they're getting their money they don't care what happens.

[RTAYLOR]

I don t usually respond to posts, but the POINT GUARD is in my opinion the worst idea Game and Fish has come up with. So for example if I'm a member of PETA, I draw a tag and wait for week before the hunt starts.....POINT GUARD "forfit" the tag so tag goes unused. PETA gains another bonus point and can draw another tag the following year. Sounds like a SCAM in my opion.

[520HUNT]

I will be putting my 19 bonus points for antelope out for bid this year to the highest bidder.

 

Ive already been offered $300

[Swivelhead]

Point guard cut the cost of "point farming" in half. Likely, more people will do it from here on out. More $$$ for G$F ..... but

I'm sure they thought of that when the plan was hatched.

[Lucafu1]

I will be putting my 19 bonus points for antelope out for bid this year to the highest bidder.

 

Ive already been offered $300

 

would you take a "high five" and a sack of rusty door knobs?

[Capt. Don Martin]

19 bonus points for antelope is nothing when the max is 27. Now 19 deer points is something else, when the max is 19 and that application will be worth a LOT of money to someone who wants to pay and jump into the 20% bonus pass.

 

I know some like it, some don't.. But it sure brings out the "screw the other guy" syndrome IF that person has money to burn and doesn't care to wait for another 5 years for a premium deer tag.

 

Don Martin

[520HUNT]

It's not nothing to the guy with near zero points... $300 is better than nothing...and that will increase I'm sure.

[firstcoueswas80]

Adam and I have gone round and round with this.

 

Use it because you broke your leg. Great.

 

Use it because someone Paul you for your points and then your can or in again next year. Wrong, dishonest and should be illegal in my eyes.

[Arrowsniper]

It's a money maker. Just like bird stamp, trout stamp, and good grief, having to pay for a lion tag!

 

Shouldn't all hunters be allowed to use pointguard?

[jim]

I like the intent of the program but it should be free and available to everyone. There should also be a set in stone way of putting the tag back in play, not the depends on their mood thing about who gets the tag.