B&C vs. David Miller

[coueshunter]

I dont know how to cut/paste an article here so maybe someone can. B&C made their first ever public position statement regarding why David Miller's coues and other trophies are no longer in their record book. The info is on their website, monstermuleys, huntamerica and a bunch of other web pages. To me it looks like David Miller has some big accusations logged against him that he will have to refute or just walk away...........This is big news.............Allen..................

[Arizona Griz]

I have been following this on the other forums. I don't know David Miller but I have heard pros and cons about him. If he didn't do anything wrong and the broken tine was just an accident like he said it was then it is sad to see the whole issue get blown out of proportion, but if there was something sneaky going on then shame on D. Miller. B & C. did give him the opportunity to keep his animals in the book, subject to x-raying, but he chose to remove them. Knowone wins in these type of situations.

Arizona Griz.

[Prohunt]

If you read Millers position and then read B&C's position they seem to contadict each other.It is hard to tell which one is true. I am surprised that B&C made a statement.They did mention the reason they made a statement is because he posted stuff on the internet hunting forums.It is just too bad B&C puts such an emphasis on the hunter instead of the animal.The animal should be recognized more than the hunter.

Travis

[Guest Dusty]

Prohunt.

 

I don't see it as if they are putting any more precedence on the hunter than the animal. IMO, they made a judgement against Miller because he made a buck that wouldn't have made Boone and Crockett into one, or at least he knew it wasn't a book buck until the tine was gone. Their judgement was on the actions of the individual who committed the act, not the animal.

 

Dusty

[Prohunt]

Dusty,

How do you know Mr.Miller broke off that point in question?If he was honest in the letter he put out it was the guide that broke it off accidentally.If you go to B&C Website it clearly states the word "deliberately" altered. In B&C's statement however, they somehow left that word out.I personally think all record books put more preccedence on the hunter than the animal. If you read about B&C's history in their own words "the book" started out as a competition, how does a competition honor an animal??I have trouble with an organization that lets a non-Coues become #1 in the world yet wants to remove an 11 year old entry because of hearsay.I am not trying to bash B&C as a club because I think they do some great stuff and I know they have some great members.It just seems like they tend to make up their own rules as they go.

Travis

[Guest Dusty]

Prohunt,

 

What Boone and Crockett does is totally up to them. But let's put this in this perspective.

 

Miller kills a buck that when they get to camp, he measures it and it scores 109 2/8 net Boone and Crockett typical. It has a 5 inch abnormal point (believe me, I've seen the photo) between the G1 and the G2 that deducts him out of the book. He knows at that exact time that this is not a Boone and Crockett animal.

 

Now lets just say that we'll believe Miller for a moment. He leaves for home and leaves his buck in Mexico. A cowboy breaks the abnormal point off the deer, and they bring it back to Miller in that shape. NOW IT'S A LEGITIMATE BOONE AND CROCKETT TROPHY! It's worth having it there in the book alongside the others. I think not.

 

Everyone is pondering over what he said and what they said, and what you should really do is use your God given common sense and the same gut feelings you use while you're hunting and make a call on it. Us that have been around Miller for years, have always said it was just a matter of time, and the guy would get caught.

 

Now to adress your concern over the buck from NM that is the new worlds record. I agree with you that he doesn't look like a coues, but Boone and Crockett received an official measurement on that buck 21 years ago, and investigated it that long trying to find some type of evidence that it wasn't a coues, or it wasn't killed where they said it was. No evidence surfaced, so what do you do, tell the guy entering it that we don't want it because it doesn't look right? They had to accept it, and if any evidence arrises after the fact, then they will remove it, just as they did with Miller's head.

 

Dusty

[Prohunt]

Dusty,

I know that what B&C does is up to them but that doesn't make it right. Personally I would rather see a 109 Coues in the book than a non-Coues be #1 any day!I do not agree with deductions anyhow.I go by what the buck gross scores,thats what counts to me.I know B&Cis the benchmark but I don't think an animal should't be recognized because it isn't perfect.

If I knew Miller personally like you say you do I might look at this differently, but I don't.My common sense tells me that people are innocent until proven guilty.All B&C has proven to me is they can contradict thier own policy, which makes me question thier motives and integrety.That is a fact, not just hearsay.

As for the NT #! Coues from NM, I could give you tons of reasons and examples why it is not a Coues.Are you serious 21 years??I would think a club with that kind of money could afford genetic testing.If not I'm sure a Taxonomist that knew Coues could have enough proof from the skull plate.Mark my word that buck will be removed eventually.

Travis

[coueshunter]

I have read most of the posts off huntamerica and MonsterMuleys with great interest. I think most of you know I posted David's first letter he faxed to me and then I got B&C email and phone call. Both David's letter and the B&C email are legit but remember both parties are explaining their side and ultimately this issue would have to go to court for the final "End Game". I doubt court will be the next step so what we have is two positions that would need continued proof of evidence to settle the accusations that continue to fly..................I can appreciate both sides even when I disagree, but hope we all learn that B&C is supposed to be an instrument for conservation/habitat restoration/fair chase.............., not a country club.........I hope we also remember that playing by the rules is the right thing........whichever way this disagreement goes, I hope its in the best interests of Trophy Animals and that Justice is served............Allen Taylor.........

[Prohunt]

I agree with you Allen, well said.

Travis

[IdahoCoues1]

I've been out of the loop for a while, can anyone tell me where to find the article containing the Miller buck story? I've looked at the B&C page, but can't find the response. I'd sure like to read it. Thanks.

 

 

 

Craig.

[coueshunter]

The whole article is on Monster Muleys general hunting page. You can search for the topic David Miller and you should be able to find it................Allen Taylor................