Anyone seeing lions while out scouting?

[MT. CAT]

I hope that isn't the philosophy your passing on to the next generation of hunters. I know my kids wont be taught to disregard the laws and regulations

[out2hunt]

I agree. On behalf of myself and everyone else on this site that has a concious, please don't procreate. I do feel we need to educate those who are not prevy to common sense!

[russd]

I heard a lion eats a deer sized animal every 10 days and even more in the summer cuz they dont like rotten meat, and u guys are passin on em, If i see one, i'm goin with the 3 S's. im sure some body out there knows what im talk'n about.

 

well i don't worship deer enough to kill every lion i see. also bet you didn't know that female lions kill alot of coyotes and eat them, as well as other small game animals. lions are trophy animals that deserve respect and a meal every now and then.

[BigMoqui]

"well i don't worship deer enough to kill every lion i see. also bet you didn't know that female lions kill alot of coyotes and eat them, as well as other small game animals. lions are trophy animals that deserve respect and a meal every now and then."

......... and an arrow through the ribs.

There are more lions right now than there ever were. This was a poor decision on G$F's part and the lion hunters. If they had put the lion opener just 1 week earlier during the first week of archery no one would be having this discussion. I'll open another can o' worms here, why, since there is a female harvest objective, couldn't the archery bear season also open on the same weekend as opening day archery deer. This would probably make too much sense though, and we all know that's not what G$F is about(rational educated decision making).

[Packer]

BigMoqui,

To answer a few of your comments. The G&F was going to have all the archery hunts start at the same time until us archers realized that there was an overlap with elk. That oversight caused them to move the archery deer and turkey forward. They did not move bear or squirrel with them as once you start moving things other things start dominoing and pretty soon they would have every season changed.

 

I would also disagree with the statement that there are more lions now than ever. This may be the case in some areas but in the areas I hunt this is not the case. I have talked to many long time lion hunters around here and many of them say that there are less lions now than there used to be. They feel, and I concur, that the lion population is finally dropping off to match the prey population in that never ending cycle of the predator/prey relationship.

 

As for trphyhtr's comment, I agree with everyone else's statements and think that this kind of attitude that definately does not need to be passed on.

 

Packer

[BigMoqui]

"I have talked to many long time lion hunters around here and many of them say that there are less lions now than there used to be. They feel, and I concur, that the lion population is finally dropping off......"

 

That' s the problem, you need to do some reading and stop listening to lion hunters/houndsmen. I don't want to pick a fight but the reality is that there are more lions in Az, the West, and in fact the the entire continental U.S. then there ever have been before. Read up on it, they have continued growing ever since PARC started to kill of the wolves and the bears. I don't have stats in front of me, but why would G$F send out a special hunter to take out the male lion in the KOFA's a few months back? Why? Because they have more lions in the desert units than ever before and they are really hurting the deer/sheep in those units.

 

Now I would like to know how many of us have been seeing more lion sign than ever before. I know I have, and I am out the same amount of time as I used to be. I've seen more lions than bears or bobcats in the last few years, and it used to be the reverse for me.

[BigMoqui]

from Man And Wildlife In Arizona: The Exploration period 1824-1865 By Goode P. Davis Jr. and\edited by Neil B. Carmony and Dave Brown

Editor's Summary

Mountain Lion"The elusive mountain lion was rarely reported by early explorers."

Wolf(lobo)"Upon entering Arizona, American frontiersman found wolves to be common, if not particularly numerous."

Jaguar(tigre, tiger, leopard)"There are more references in the early reports to this large secretive cat than there are to elk and javelina."

I also just read a 400+ page decades long study of mountain lions in southern N.M. and the statement that lions eat other game besides deer is very much true. I believe the study even found that a lion had made a meal of a badger! But with that said it is more important to understand how many deer are consumed compared to other animals. I don't have the study in front of me, but even though lions do kill other prey it makes up very little of there overall diet biomass wise. Deer are also the preferred prey and I think lagomorphs(sp.) were second.

Again I don't really want to start anything, but it is true, the literature is out there. Lions are more prevalent than they have been in the past, and lions eat a lot of deer.

One more thing I want to add, I hope my original post did not imply that I agree with the 3 S's. I obey these game regs. whether I like them or not. I just wish the season was open last weekend, 'cause there would have been one less lion in my unit.

[AZP&Y]

I obey these game regs. whether I like them or not. I just wish the season was open last weekend, 'cause there would have been one less lion in my unit.

 

My Sentiments EXACTLY----------------->

 

I glassed up 2 this week. Nice healthy toms. In fact one of Toms sat at the bottom of the bottom a ravine and I watched 2 nice bucks go into the cut in the mountains. I saw one of the bucks come out , but didn't see the other one. Just a bunch of noise (screaming and shrieking) and what I would think was the lion trying to take down one of the bucks (nice 3x3)...

 

Pretty crazy, but I truely wish the season was open and public pressure was not the rule of what is perceived to be a shortage of lions...

 

AzP&Y

[russd]

not every lion eats a deer a week. far from the truth. some toms will. and toms cover large areas. females will overlap their areas but have a wide variety of game they eat. i think the g and f should have left the season open, but what i don't understand is why deerhunters want to kill every lion alive. i think that is a narrow way to look at the environment. to each his own i guess.

[Packer]

Moqui,

I guess i have not read the literature and have just based my comments on observations through the years. Also, like I said these observations are in areas that I frequent and not statewide. I know that the KOFA is having problems now that they didn't in the past but I have never been to the KOFA. I am mostly talking about areas where we currently have wolves. Hey with that in mind maybe both the literature and I am correct in saying that in these areas, where there are other top predators, there are fewer lions than there were say 10 years ago. I will leave it at that as I don't want to get into an agrument over this but don't make generalizations statewide that may, or may not be 100% accurate.

 

Packer

[firstcoueswas80]

not every lion eats a deer a week. far from the truth. some toms will. and toms cover large areas. females will overlap their areas but have a wide variety of game they eat. i think the g and f should have left the season open, but what i don't understand is why deerhunters want to kill every lion alive. i think that is a narrow way to look at the environment. to each his own i guess.

 

 

The reason it was closed was to make the antis happy. Now, I NEVER support making them happy but in this case its not a 100% bad call. We close the season when the fewest lions are killed and the antis are happy and its not a HUGE loss to us like could result. I do not support this 100%, but I am in about 80% support of it.

[COOSEFAN]

None of this was done to make the Anti's happy. The closed season was agreed on because very few if any lion hunters are out in the middle of summer......maybe they could have made it a week earlier for the re-opening of the season, but it really doesn't matter. The issue about the female with kitten harvest was dealt with in agreement that lion hunters don't target those animals anyways....why would the lion hunters sit there and argue that they WANTED to be allowed to kill females with kittens? I am not a professional lion hunter, I was at the metting where the changes took place and there were alot of facts presented in favor of the lion hunters and nothing was done just to make the Anti groups happy.......it just so happened that both sides of the issue actually agreed on a change. There are a few assumptions on this thread that are not based on the facts of why things happened......maybe it was the wording in my first post, but research the facts or ask one of the professional houndsmen that was there and has a more in depth knowledge about what transpired and why........then base opinions from that! And that is my opinion on the subject JIM>

 

BTW........I agree there are definitely no shortage of Lions in AZ.

[out2hunt]

I have never seen one,just tracks. This would be my all time trophy. Who wants to take me?

[jnobleinaz]

we spotlighted two cats last night following a heard of cow elk. Pretty cool

[cmc]

the literature is out there. Lions are more prevalent than they have been in the past, and lions eat a lot of deer.

 

Can you list off the authors and sources of the literature please?

 

thanks

cmc