New Reloader Questions

[CouesPursuit]

First time reloader here that is open and eager to learn. I've worked up some decent loads for my factory savage 110 7mm using 63.0gr RL22 pushing 168gr LRABs. At 63.5gr, the groups were still good but I started seeing an outlier/group. For this load using RL22, I believe I'm set at 63.0gr.

 

Seating depth test with the 168 LRAB contacted the lands at 3.43" and internal mag accepted 3.43" without issue, albeit not by much. I am going to play with the seating depth a bit more, but here is where I'm at @ 100 yards.

 

3.42" OAL (.010" jump)

 

3.40" OAL (.030" jump)

 

How would you go about testing the seating depth from here? Or would you seat at 3.41" OAL and call it good? Am I measuring group size correctly?

 

I'd be happy if I had to call it on load development, and start testing ballistics and shooting to get ready for Wyoming antelope this fall. However, to the knowledgeable audience here, would you be satisfied with where I'm at?

 

Has RL22 been a dependable powder for you?

Reason I ask, I have been doing some reading on RL22 before committing and buying in bulk but a lot of guys on the popular long range forums talked about temperature sensitivity and lot to lot variation that is unacceptable for these guys to use it as a goto powder. I mean, I was reading about guys talking about temp issues when shooting at >80-90 F. I'm hoping to develop a single load for all game in all seasons. You're all aware of the broad temp ranges in AZ from early October desert hunts to the late December mountain hunts. If I still wanted to experiment with another powder or two, what would you try next?

 

You'll noticed I haven't referred to velocities yet-

That's because I don't know how much velocity matters to my situation in relation to accuracy but I'd love to hear your take.

I'm shooting a factory rifle exclusively for hunting purposes, with a BDC reticle, that I don't plan on shooting > 600 yards on game, if ever. In the past, I've used a 200 yard zero and each ballistic dot represents a tested and correlating yardage. I.e. first dot below zero played 290 yards, second played 395, third 510, etc. I have proven to myself I'm confident in this method.

Lastly, the LRAB's are said to perform similar to the well-reputed accubond, but at longer ranges with lower velocities. I don't think my 7mm shouldn't have any issues with the 168gr LRAB at 600 yards on game.

 

Thanks for reading and any discussion.

[Kingzero]

It all depends on what you want. Some are good with 1" groups while others demand more. Both groups are sub .75 moa and with a little more work you may be able to get .5 moa. The real test is when you take a load to distance. They might group well at 100 but open up when you push them farther. Shoot a couple groups at 300 to give you an idea of performance.

 

For seating depth I usually start with the bullet touching the lands (if mag allows) and then back off 0.010" at a time up to 0.050" and load 5 rounds of each length. In a hunting rifle you want at least 0.010" from touching to avoid pulling a bullet and dumping powder in your action.

 

I have never used RL22 so I can't comment but Retumbo is my go to powder for my 7mag.

 

Don't rely on what the manual says for your scope/ reticle. Shoot each distance and verify drops to be sure.

[CraigK]

Those aren't bad groups by any means. Top group is a little over 1/2 moa. I had best results at .030 off the lands with h1000. Personally I'd try the top group load out to 300 or 400yards and see if it holds moa or better. I also seemed to always have a little flier with the lrabs not too sure why.

[CouesPursuit]

Don't rely on what the manual says for your scope/ reticle. Shoot each distance and verify drops to be sure.

 

I completely agree, I meant to convey I don't use each dot at 300, 400, 500 but what they actually represent based on shooting experience.

 

Thank you very much for the tip on at least 0.010" off the lands, I'm assuming because in you hunting you load and unload often. Never thought of that, good stuff.

 

Those aren't bad groups by any means. Top group is a little over 1/2 moa. I had best results at .030 off the lands with h1000. Personally I'd try the top group load out to 300 or 400yards and see if it holds moa or better. I also seemed to always have a little flier with the lrabs not too sure why.

 

Good info, thank you. Do you still load LRABs or have you moved on?

[CraigK]

I shoot the 180gr Berger hybrids now, But out of a 1/8 twist barrel. I shot the lrabs, berger 168 classic hunters, and 162 Hornady sst with the sst being the easiest to load for with the bergers close behind. Some people really like the lrabs and have had great success on game.

[WampusCat]

If you like Alliant powders I would look into RL23 and RL26. RL23 is supposed to be the temp insensitive brother to the 22. I've read great things about the speed and temp stable (+/- .5 fps per degree) abilities of the RL26.

 

I love H-1000 and burn it in several guns/calibers.

 

Your velocity (from an accurate chrono) will tell a great deal about your load by way of extreme spread (ES) and standard deviation (SD) of a string of shots. Consistency and repeatability in all steps of the process is key to an accurate load. When you get the load recipe right the chrono numbers will let you know. I would also recommend a ladder test at the furthest distance you are comfortable shooting accurately (500+ yds?). The longer the distance the more obvious the results will be. When your ladder test shows a number of different charge weights grouping together (vertical distance is only concern) then I proceed with fine tuning powder weights and seating depth.

 

Remember to change only one variable at a time and don't be afraid to re-test your results to confirm your findings.

[Hoss50]

Those are very nice results for a factory rifle and a first load workup. Play with powder quantity and seating depth and see if you can dial it in.

[CouesPursuit]

Thank you, Hoss and WampusCat, great suggestions on powder that I will definitely look into. And although a significant portion of velocity stuff is beyond my current level and desire to pursue for this coming fall, it is much appreciated and I will take it into consideration.

[CouesPursuit]

The real test is when you take a load to distance. They might group well at 100 but open up when you push them farther. Shoot a couple groups at 300 to give you an idea of performance.

 

Personally I'd try the top group load out to 300 or 400yards and see if it holds moa or better.

 

 

The longer the distance the more obvious the results will be.

Remember to change only one variable at a time and don't be afraid to re-test your results to confirm your findings.

 

Right on guys, I'm fully satisfied with anything <= .75 MOA, and would be tickled pink if I can approach .5.

I think for now the only variable I should change is shooting distance. I'll take the shooting out to 300 yards.

 

Since I can't change the weather, I'm thinking I should sight in and stick with this RL22 load for a year, and pay close attention to temperature in regards to accuracy and velocity. I can play on the side and move on if needed.

 

I saw H1000 and Retumbo pop up a lot when researching load development, also Ramshot Magnum specific to the 7mm. But then there are about 5 more that come highly recommended too!! lol - this is the fun everyone who reloads was telling me about!

[Hoss50]

I am working with H1000 in my 7mm Rem Mag sofar, but I know RL22 and Retumbo work well too in a lot of cases. I just have an 8lb keg of H1000 on only 1lb of the other 2 so I am using what I have the most of.

 

Get a load dialed in some more and practice, practice, practice.

[metau]

Lance made a post a few weeks ago detailing his methodology for working up a load. If you have not read it, I highly suggest that you take a few minutes and do so.

 

As for powder, I've not shot RL22 long enough to comment on it's temp handling. Most of my powders are the extreme powders from Hodgdon, which are not as sensitive to temp swings.

 

Concerning the LRAB, all I can say is that you need to match your bullet of choice to your intended game to your velocities at your expected range of shot. All game bullets have a velocity window in which they will perform as intended to, so you just need to do the math and make sure that your expected shot distances will be within that velocity window.

 

Have fun, and safe shooting.

[lancetkenyon]

I have found RL22 to have approximately 1fps per 1° in temp changes. So a ladder test is critical to determine a range of velocities for your accuracy node, and try to work your load somewhere in there to correspond with temp and velocity variations to keep them in that range.

I have worked up numerous 7RM loads for different rifles using RL22 and a 168 gr. bullet. But I personally prefer H1000. H1000 is known for fantastic accuracy potential. RL22 can usually get slightly higher velocities, but you get the temp sensitivity. Retumbo will also yield slightly higher velocity than H1000, but it is a dirty burning powder.

I think you are on the right track with your progress.

All of the steps of brass prep, and reloading steps might only net .05" better accuracy potential each, but combine them all and it adds up.

Another thing that really adds up in accuracy is the rifle set up. Proper torque on all bolts, bedding, floating, etc. Trigger pull weight is a big one too.

The final step to accuracy is proper shooting set up, form, and a lot of practice utilizing the proper form. One fantastic set of videos for reference is "The Art of Precision Rifle" by Magpul. I have watched it probably 6 or 7 times, and still learn from it. I have it saved on my computer if anyone wants to download it on a flash drive.

[CouesPursuit]

I was just back on this thread and going to say how much of a help Lance has already been, and boom there he is. Thanks again for all the input. I am going to experiment with another powder or 2 as well as test the RL22 load out a couple hundred yards and I'll report back.