Trouble and Danger in UNIT 34A

[.270]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/083...rkilled-ON.html

this is the latest thing i've seen on it. has his name and stuff in the article. said he was camped 12 miles east of sahuarita. some place called hellevitia? never heard of it. says he died of mulitple gushot wounds and it was a homicide. rough deal. sleep with one eye open and a loaded shotgun nearby, i guess. and go with others. ya know, this is BS me even making those recommendations, too. a guy oughta be able to feel safe. what a load o' crap. i've always sorta been on the side of folks coming up here to work. but if it turns out that some south of the border person had something to do with this, i think it'll be time a for a change of mind. time to close the border tight and get tough on "EVERYONE" crossing illegally. maybe we're all jumping to conclusions, but it's sorta expected, seeing what's going on in SE AZ., these days. Lark.

[Redman]

While there is no way to prove from an article who actually murdered this man (somebody who knew him or unknown person), anybody who has hunted in S AZ has had to of seen the waste left by illegals or has been a victim of theft. Regardless of who murdered this man, hunting and camping is S AZ is dangerous. Just as AZ4LIFE mentioned it is time for the US government to protect its citizens and its land.

 

Everybody on this board should write a letter to the AZ congress/representatives telling them its time for them to do their job and secure our boarder. Here is the contact information.

 

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/...te=ctc&state=az

 

 

Redman

[Guest Ernesto C]

I'm no bodys judge but I'm no bodys lawyer either.Why we are so quick to judge and so quick to point fingers?

 

If it makes you happy please let me tell you that the U.S. Goverment is well aware of the problems close to the border,let me tell you they are working on it,maybe it does not look like it but we do not have the manpower to cover or to take care of the problem at once.

 

Now please also let say something else if I walk to a group of people and ask " do you know what kind of f-inkg idiot you are hey I dont care if you speak spanish or Inglisn,I dont care if you are from Canada or England or from what country you are they will try to kick my you now what. The point I'm trying to make is that there are ways to do things. Please dont get me wrong those people did wrong so I'm not trying to justify anybody.

 

Just becuase some body speak spanish makes him a mexican?Just because some body speaks inglish makes him american?

 

Who I'm going to blame if a hunter dies in the northen border? I read about a hunter and his guide that went out huntig big horn sheep and when return back to camp the only thing they found was a gallon of milk,their stove,outfitters tent everything was gone,you'll be sorprise to know who stole everything.

Also I know of a hunter that went out hunting but because he was having and a romance with somebody elses wife he never return home alive.

 

I can keep going on and on but I'm going to shout my mouth,illegals from different countrys keep coming to this magnificent country becuase.......Do you know why they keep coming? Because we keep hiring them.Why dont we punish those who hire illegals? Do we know that illegals means big $$$$ for companies? Why different countrys keep bringing their drugs here? Because we keep buying from them. I know,I know I have to look the other side of the story too but I hope you'll se the point I'm trying to make.

What happened here is very very sad it does not matter if the victim was white black or yellow or if the killer was from the south or from the north is very sad and painfull, a killer is a killer. Does it matter where he was born? If I'm the next victim or if you are the next victim,does it matter if the killer is illegal or a legal resident?

 

Amanda Can it be possible for you to find a bank account # or some place where we can send money?

 

Why my fellow members instead of being pointing fingers and cultivating hate,why dont we get together and pray for his family? It will not hurt if we pray for this beatifull country too.

 

Dear God,Lord of life please bless the lives of the family of this man,you know them Lord by name and last name too please give them the physical and spiritual strength to go thru this,we ask you this is the name that is above all names,in the name of your son Jesus. Amen.

 

God Bless America.....but America please bless God.

 

God bless all of you my fellow members,remember do not hunt alone;how many times I had said this?

 

Just my most insignificant two cents.

[az4life]

Ernesto has some good points, and a lot of others have also had good points.

 

Regardless of the person(s) responsible for this dastardly act, I still stand my my belief that the US Government is looking the other way regarding the illegal alien problem. Be it a "harmless" person seeking work and a better life or a smuggler, or a terrorist, The government is not protecting the border adequately. Proytecting the border also includes keeping employers from hiring the illegal workdes.

 

I have read on this board where A 7 strand wire fence with countless holes is all that seperates us from the illegals, and it is obvious it ain't working! Daily traffic accidents with van loads of illegals throughout AZ show it is a problem. More than 1000 catch and release aliens in AZ every day show it is a problem. A new Test program where we Fly illegals home at US taxpayer expense shows it is a problem. After flying them home, they mostly say they will rest up and try again. Whoever came up with this program, I got a sign for you to hole, It says STUPID.

 

I will wait for more info on the investigation of this specific incident but I am mad as I can be about not being able to feel safe in my own country due to illegals, and that is not going to change!

Political correctness is plain stupid!

When did "Illegal" quit being enforced by the laws?

[m77]

There are a lot of interesting discussions on this site, mostly dealing with all of our favorite sport of hunting whitetail. For this devasting of news to happen, especially this early in the season, I feel will make this hunting season continually get worse. Hunters will become extremely quick with the trigger as this news spreads throughout Arizona. Confrontations will end with deaths.

 

We all need to keep our cool and avoid danger. Have a CELL PHONE with you at all times. I have had success getting a signal through most of the areas in southern arizona that I've been in.

 

AZ4Life is correct when he states that our government is NOT doing enough to stop illegal immigration. I am originally from Wisconsin and I never had to worry about illegals or smugglers while hunting, camping, fishing..........in the great outdoors, WHY SHOULD THE AMERICAN CITIZENS OF ARIZONA EXPECT ANY THING LESS????? Is it not the governor of this states job to pressure Washington?

 

A letter of e-mail from everyone of us will help, but it has to be organized. We need a strong lobby group. If the illegals were killing animals you can bet PETA would be heard in Washington. If it was a hunter killing an illegal you can bet another special interest group would be jumping up and screaming. Why can JOE AMERICAN, the guy that works and keeps this country running ever be heard and acted upon????

 

Ernesto maybe right in saying the we don't know for a fact that illegals murdered this hunter, but the fact is that illegal immigration is the NUMBER ONE problem facing southern arizona and very little success is being done to stop it. And the list of problems stemming from illegal immigration are endless.

 

Your comments back are what strengthen this site.

 

Thanks, Alan

[gnoto]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but illegal or not what they did was illegal. Thsi unfortunate tragedy allows you to consider again how safe we are. The odds are he was killed by somebody he knew or had a previous encounter with. Regardless of who did it we all need accept it happened in our own backyard. Take some timeto make sure you are prepared and remember this is no thte Old West but is surely is still the wild west and any man alone in the Southern Territory of Arizona need heed that reality. Maybe its time to remember its of value to glass more then just the Coues. If it moves I note it. Check you camp from a distance before returning. Check your vehicle before returning. Take a friend. I'll be in 36a the week of 11/12. If your not comfortable being there alone drop me a line your welcome in my camp.

[newbee]

I've already replied to the same topic in archery hunting,and there is a post here that made me think a little more,the point of this mans death to us should be awareness of our surroundings, and to be carefull when trecking out alone.as horrible this may be ,and how much my prayers and heart go out to his family -or who did or why it was done can not be changed! what can be changed is that we take the neccessary steps to make sure it doesnt happen to any one else we know or dont know!! if you come through my camp you better have a sincere smile and an open hand , we all have natural instincts when something is wrong its the same thing when a deer or what ever you are hunting spooks and runs they can hear smell see and feel when danger is near,listen to your gut instinct .if you offend someone by racking a shotgun cause they dont seem right well you cant do anything about it . it is truly a sad day when we must discuss such things , but my priority is to come home alive from a weekend trip!

heres an idea,for any former millitary should get a good chuckle about it but its a thought..

I cant think for the life of who makes them but they are easy as pie to make..basicley its an early warning device made out of machined alluminium or fabricated out of steel- it uses a blank 12 ga. shell and a trip wire if you go out alone set up a perimeter defense 50 yards or so away and a few along the main trails as they come to your encampment second 1st generation night vision if one goes off grab your pistol,or shot gun and put on your nvg,s-this may sound a bit extreme but it better than dead! dont get me wrong, I am a law abiding citizen as well as an ethical hunter but facts are facts drug runners are comming in from the south and there are illegal (obviously) drug farms throughout the north.not to mention when I start bringing my boys hunting with me..I said it before,and ill say it again it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six

Edited January 1, 1970 by newbee

[Guest Ernesto C]

I believe that illegal inmmigration is a big problem for the entire U.S. not only southern Az.

Yes sending the goverment emails and letters is a very good idea,believe me its being done but if we keep sending them more it will not hurt.

 

Newbee I use to use almost the same thing with the help of fishing line.

 

You know lets talk hunting several times before I mentioned a lots of safety precautions we all should take when we go out camping,fishing,hunting etc etc. I one that I make a lot emphasis is do not hunt alone believe me it does help.

 

Yes,please if you have a cellular phone take it with you and get it contack with your family and relatives or friends at least twice a day. Let them know where you going to be for how long and when you'll be back. Make a map of the area where you'll be and give them a copy,in this map write the name of canyons,roads etc. etc.

 

You know I can keep going on and on with the list of safety precautions ( I lost count on how many times I posted before) but above all,please do not hunt alone

 

We can spent the entire life talking abount politics,illegal inmigration and etc. Remember we do have some other problems too,terrorist,murderers,cancer,aids,Taulman and many many more.

 

We are on a hunting site,and it's not just "any regular hunting site" it's the most magnificent hunting coues site" so lets honor the place where we are and lets talk hunting

 

God bless everybody and take care. Happy hunting.

 

Ernesto C.

[az4life]

Newbee

 

That set up is something like I saw on a show this weekend. They use that very set-up in polar bear country in Norway I think? Pretty cool but with the fire danger it might burn down your tent and half the forest just trying to warn you some lowlife scumbag is about to kill you or steal your posessions.

 

I still believe it is criminal that we law abiding citizens have to fear those illegals (whether or not they were the the ones guilty in this case) when we are out in the wilderness in our own country.

 

The sentiment of "taking care" and Watching out for" and "make sure you take a gun" permeates the topic and it is just not right!

 

Illegals, are by definition ILLEGAL and therefore breaking the law. Illegals must FIRST be stopped from coming here and the only way to do it is to start doing it.

 

I am sick and tired of everyone in law enforcement looking the other way when faced with illegals. They get in a wreck and they are let go since the police cannot wait for the overworked understaffed INS or border patrol. They come here and clog up our hospitals since they get free care. Women stand by the border just waiting to give birth. When they start into labor they hustle across so their little baby will be a US citizen. Then they all come across as the parents. They find ways to Beat the system and these are the "legal" ways.

 

We ALL have to pay for these people as they drain our system and resources dry. For years the AZ school board has let and helped dozens of illegals cross the border daily to attent AZ Schoos. As bad as the public schools are in AZ they are better than anything in Mexico and they are FREE. Thousands of more examples of the way the illegals abuse our system, and it will continue until they pay a price, some significant penalty for coming here ILLEGALLY!

 

Finally, I am not opposed to LEGAL immigration, but LEGAL means LEGAL and cannot be confused with ILLEGAL. I am not Racist and I generally abide by the laws and pay my share of taxes. I have no sympathy or compassion for someone who would break into my house and steal my posessions. I would protect anyone who was an invited guest in my home .

Likewise I do not have any sympathy or compassion for someone breaking into my country and stealing or damaging it's posessions either.

 

I am sure this is likely to tick some folks off, but that is the way I see it, and until I find a reason why those legal immigrants can go through the process, and the illegal ones cannot I will not change my mind.

 

I have and will continue to Pray for all those in the circle of life lost but I also Pray for earthly and heavenly justice to those who cut the life short.

[Guest Ernesto C]

Yes AZ4life I agree,protecting our home,our familys and our own country does not make us racists and yes if and individual is here illegally does not belong here that's why we have laws.

 

If a person breiks in to my house I dont care if he is illegal,legal,black or white he will be biting the dust.

 

Take care.

[workhorse]

How did one mans death turn into the illegals did it.Who are all of you to point fingers and blame somone.No-one knows who did this.Untill we can prove that it was an illegal then we can point our finger, but we still can't judge them.Thats for the man up stairs!Are these people breaking the law?YES.There coming over illegal and dirting our land.But these people are willing to come over and work all the low end jobs that no one else wants.Kids in high school should be working at fast food places but they're to good for it they think.Now who is working at these places, ILLEGALS, and probably for alot less to.

 

Once I was scouting and ran into a group of about fourty people.I was with my cousin but we split up and he had the hand gun.I went into a canyon not even noticing these people and was stunned when I saw them.Well I could'nt back away so instead I went down to try to talk to them.I am mexican AMERICAN but my spanish is a little rusty.Out of all these people two of them were willing to talk to me and all they we're saying is please don't report them.Do these people get me mad by coming over illegaly?, yes, but it is not my job to round these people up.When I go out in the field I'm there to hunt not look at everyone else.Don't get me wrong if someone enters my camp or I see someone trashing another camp they're gonna wish they never did that and they're gonna wish they never met me.

 

I also think we should pray for the person(s) who did this that the lord may have mercy on their souls.Amen.Also for our fellow hunter. R.I.P Thanks and God Bless you all.Be safe.

[Kilimanjaro]

Well, guess its time for me to step up and say a few works concerning this discussion. I am a United States Border Patrol Agent and I am out there every day dealing with these illegals. 99.9% of these folks are still coming here to work. The rest are the $hitbags that you have to watch out for. But, the drug runners and the rest of the scum bags out there are an unlikely suspect in my opinion on this matter. They want nothing more than to stay completley under the radar. They, for the most part, have a predetrmined route and food caches out there along the way. They stay completlyoff trailsand go cross country. The rest of the mass crossers don't have enough sense to stay undetectable. I would seriously doubt if illegals are to blame on this one. I think they are just an easy scapegoat to point the finger at. I would have to say it was probably someone he knows and they knew where he was going to be out there.

I dont work in that particular unit but I do work just west of there and the amount of crossings every day is mind blowing. Please dont point fingers at the USBP because we are already understaffed and we cant possibly be in every place at all times. The public will always be out there in way more numbers than us, thats just the law of averages. There are only so many of us and a huge chunk of area we have to patrol. My heart goes out to the family. And to the rest of you, carry a gun out there no matter what the law says! Good luck this fall,

Scottyboy

[jamaro]

ScottyBoy

Good Post... I agree.. My brother-in-law is al USBP and he pretty much says the same thing. The real dirt bags LAYLOW.. this would bring them too much heat and ruin a route.

jason

[couesdiehard]

Scottyboy you nailed it. I wish these folks weren't sneaking across the border myself and I also wish they weren't trashing such beautiful country on their way. I can tell you this much though, I don't want to think how bad the economy would have to be here in the States for me to decide to go through half of what most of these folks will go through to work a job that I sure don't want at a pay that I couldn't support my family on anyway!

I agree whole-heartedly that a very small percentage of the border crossers are really bad characters and they are generally drug and people smugglers. Again neither the workers or the smugglers would have any reason to murder someone like this that I can think. It seems like some folks just let their fears get the best of them and illegal aliens are an easy bunch to point fingers at. If you really want to stop illegal immigration you just have to stop golfing, buying meals, produce, houses, etc. that creates the low-paying jobs that no citizen can afford to take or wants. I really can't understand why these hard-working folks are hated so much. They generally work like mules, get paid like serfs, and barely ever make a wimper. They die in the desert, are held for ransom, are beaten, stolen and killed; all for a minimum wage job. We should create a legal way for them to work here.

I'll get off my soap-box now and offer another theory on this lousy murder. I think it may come out that if it wasn't someone this poor guy knew they will find that it was one or more drifters. There are plenty of them in that country, squatting where they can and we can all remember on more than one occasion where drifters have taken advantage of catching someone in an isolated area and robbed and/or killed them.

[az4life]

We ALL agree Nobody here knows the reasons for this killing, but the point I hear repeatedly is the public is not safe in the southern border regions. Comments like:

Make sure you carry a gun, Sleep with a gun under your pillow, Scout the area around your vehicle before you go to it. Make sure you don't camp or hunt alone in those areas, Etc.....

 

All those comments and more from outdoors people show we have a border control problem. It is NOT the fault of the border patrol, but the fault of the policy makers. Any citizen who holds these illegals at gunpoint is charged as racist and or a nutcase. Sued in Feceral court for human rights violations, kidnapping, hostage taking and unlawful detention.

 

I just do not see how they can come here illegally and want to be helpful and productive for themselves and this country. To me it is like one candidate running for president who has promoted his war record as reason for him to be elected but won't deny what hundreds of people who were there say to prove he is lying. Build your house on a landfill and it will probably stink until you admit it is on a landfill, and move it!

 

I thoroughly believe this country can survive without illegals. We did for almost 200 years until the policy was ignored. Just look at news stories and movies from 20 - 40 years ago. Raids were common and IMMIGRATION was the "blood curdling scream" from illegals when they were spotted here illegally. Federal law prohibits illegals from being hired but it is just plain not enforced.

 

Thousands come here legally every year. My point is if they want to come here, legally is the only acceptable way. If they come here any other way, They should be thrown out forcibly and treated so they do not want to come back. Treating illeags as "guests" is like leaving sugar out as ant poison. IT DOES NOT WORK.

You just try to go to Mexico illegally (that's a laugh) but if you did, you would not be treated the way we treat them.

 

I think of many of the Guantanimo prisoners from Iraq and recall lots of them asked how they were being treated. The reporters thought the conditions were terrible but the prisoners said they did not have it so good at home, ever!

 

Sorry for the venting but I am furious one of our own is lost for no apparent reason, and furious the governmetn is not doing what it is supposed to be doing.