New arrows

[Pac8541]

Next week I get my left shoulder replaced with some kind of unobtanium Steve Austin part. During my time off I'm going to build another dozen or 2 arrows but I'm having a little trouble settling on a shaft. I want to try the micro diameter Eastons and its coming down to either the Carbon D6 Injexions or the FMJ Deep 6. Both are 4mm shafts and in a 330 spine, they spec out at 10.2gr and 11gr per inch respectively. I'm building them with VPA's footed outserts which will really strengthen the point insert and protect end of the shaft.

 

I really like the way the FMJs pull out of targets. That may be a minor concern relative to everything else but with what I'm facing next week and the fact that this will be surgery #4 between both sides, little things like that can make a difference. Has anyone experienced anything regarding shafts becoming bent from use or practice? If so, how prone are they to do this?

 

The all carbon shafts appeal to me due to their durability. Since I tend to shoot a target far more than live animals, I like the fact that they won't bend with all that use and would be more durable if I were to take a spill.

 

Any input on either shaft is appreciated.

[Pac8541]

Never mind. Picked up a half dozen of each today, gonna build a few with VPA's footer and footed outsert and see how they fly. Will post a few pics along the way in case anyone is looking the same way.

[WampusCat]

I'm very interested in where you are going with this. I was hoping someone else would chime too. No experience with either shaft but looking into the skinny stuff. Let us us know what you think.

[CouesPursuit]

I've been very pleased shooting VAP V6's the last few years. No elk yet, but have shot 7 deer/pigs with 7 pass-throughs, 5 of which were with an old Bear bow pushing 29" arrows at ~ 250fps. Last week I built 2 more dozen but went with the VAP Elites (the new V1). I prefer the 92gr stainless steel inserts as the aluminum inserts do tend to bend and the SS significantly increases FOC. They produce by far the best groups I've shot in 10 years of archery.

[8OWHUNT247]

The FMJ's were one of my favorite arrows. The weight and KE are absolutely incomparable. That said, the tip of the arrow (past the hidden insert) can bend a little. Unfortunately, it will be hard to notice if it is a slight bend... If you shoot a lot, you will end up with a lot of bent tips.. I've had one bend hitting the metal bar in a Glendale buck target.

 

I am very curious how the new insert will help. Please let us know what you come up with!! Maybe I can go back to my favorite arrow!!

[Pac8541]

Well things didn't start out super awesome: the shafts wound up being cut a 1/2" shorter than what I asked for and I didn't notice that until this morning. Then as I started assembling the correct length shafts that I ordered from Lancaster I screwed one up trying to get the insert in with Loctite gel. That stuff sets up REALLY FAST. Putting pressure on the insert to get the shoulder into the mouth of the shaft wound up making it stick. So now I've got a brand new FMJ with about an 1/8th inch insert sticking out of the end. FMJ quickly became FML. Whatever. The 1/2" in shaft length doesn't actually make that much of a difference and the point still winds up just ahead of, or even with, the front of my riser.

 

Here are the 2 point end assemblies I'm using. The top one is the VPA footer (7075 AL, 12gr.) and has a small lip on the end to protect the face of the shaft. VPA machines these a little larger in diameter at the face to match the shank of their broadheads. Their D6 broadheads have the correct threads to fit the insert but are standard diameter from the threads up. That difference in footer to D6 point diameter is shown in the 2nd photo. The bottom one is the VPA footed outsert (7075 Al, 52gr.). The narrow shank glues inside the shaft with the outsert sticking out, then the sleeve slides up against the shouldered base of the outsert covering the intersection of the shaft and outsert. The 3rd photo shows the footed outsert assembled on the shaft.

 

I've only assembled this one shaft, the other test arrows are sitting over the next 24hrs for the epoxy to set up on the inserts (learn quick, huh?!).

• FMJ Deep Six 330, 26.5" ctc.
• Easton G nock.
• Vanetec vanes that weight 5gr each (to approximate the Flexfletch Flash vane I plan to use).
• VPA footed outsert.
• 125gr field point.
• Total weight: 488gr
• FOC: 18%

I plan to add Firenocks to these because I love those things and they'll add 18gr to the total weight and lower my FOC a bit. No idea how fast they'll be. I don't trust the online software for a lot of this so I'm gonna shoot this one through a chrono this afternoon. I'm going to try the footer on a Carbon Injexion 330 tomorrow. That one will spec out much lighter overall.

[Pac8541]

This arrow just did 251fps out of a 2016 Elite E35, 70lbs, 27.5" DL. Seems a little slow to me...

[HuntHarder]

Yeah, 250 sounds pretty slow imo. It will get the job done, but I think the happy zone for speed is 270-290 fps. I am currently flinging VAP's weighing 450ish, ( cant remember exact) at 280. This has produced some serious pass thru's. Almost a negative, because I have lost 2 arrows that blew thru the vitals, and skipped so far I could not find them. haha. Thats the only negative I have been able to come up with since shooting Micro's.

[Maverick351]

The energy 35 isn't really a speed bow so that will slow the arrow down a bit. But my thought is I've seen plenty of women kill deer and elk and everything else at 40-50lbs and slower speed so short of a long distance shot I wouldn't worry much. Momentum will kill more than a fast arrow.

[Pac8541]

My thoughts exactly, Jr. But, I'd like to see something around 270 just the same. I think that'd put me a bit lighter than I want but like everything, it's picking the best compromise. I'm gonna try this same thing with a 100gr point and then see what the carbons show. You guys have a chrono at the shop I can run a few arrows through on Mon?

[Maverick351]

I am not working for ahq any more. But yes ahq has a chrono and I know timber mesa has a chrono

[Pac8541]

Built a carbon injexion last night and shot it against the FMJ D6 today and I think I'm gonna go with the CI's. Don't have a chrono on that one yet (monday) but the numbers work more in my favor: total arrow weight is 477gr with an FOC of almost 17%. Penetration was interesting. I chose an almost completely un-shot side of my target and put 4 arrows into it from 30yds. Photos below with an explanation following.

 

Above photo is the FMJ D6 and Carbon Injexion, both shot from 30 yds. The FMJ has 17gr less weight at the fletching than the last pics below.

 

It would appear the CI shaft outpenetrated the FMJ.

 

Top to bottom:

ACC 488gr 7.425"

Carbon Injexion 475gr 8.5"

FMJ D6 500gr 8.5"

FMJ standard 580gr 8.25"

 

Penetration was determined by measuring from the target face to the end of the nock, then subtracting that from total arrow length. All 4 have different overall lengths due to cut length and how the points are attached.

[Pac8541]

I put 4 arrows through a chronograph yesterday afternoon:

 

1. Carbon Injexion, 452gr, 260fps.
2. Carbon Injexion, 477gr, 255fps.
3. FMJ D6, 478gr, 254fps.
4. FMJ D6 503gr, 248fps.

Numbers 2 and 3 are virtually identical and between the 4 of them it seems to me that it will come down to other factors, FOC being the primary one for me. At the moment it appears the CI shaft will be the one I'll build as a dozen with the ability to go back and forth between 100 and 125 gr points. But, I'm interested in your guys' opinion. What do you all think?

[JACK]

What are you trying to achieve? The highest foc you can around 500 grains?

[Pac8541]

Hi Jack. I know I've been through this before and I appreciate you taking the time to offer advice and give an opinion. Your input is always welcome and was valuable when I did this last year.

 

I guess I'm after the most capable tool for the job while admitting I'm not exactly sure which attributes should be given more weight. At present, FOC seems to be at or near the top of my priorities but only if focus on that characteristic doesn't throw the whole equation out of balance. I know I'm not going to hit 270 or higher on the chrono unless I choose an arrow that's lighter than I want, and by that I mean makes my bow noisy and feel less stable. Firing heavy arrows feels "right" to me with every shot. It feels like things are operating properly, it feels solid, stable, and efficient. Speed alone has never been my top priority but I recognize that speed cannot be completely abandoned simply to hit the heaviest weight arrow with the highest FOC. There is a point of diminishing returns since things like momentum and kinetic energy are dependent on both mass and velocity. I envy the guys with long draw lengths...

 

So Mr. Jack, I guess the short answer to your question is yes, kinda. I want FOC >15%, I want total arrow weight above 450gr, and I'm trying to remain realistic regarding speed, knowing what my equipment and personal limitations are.