Just want to vent

[Thomas11]

So I've looked at these late archery hunts again, some of them are 100% draw and lots have 70-80% draw odds. Some even had leftover tags. For some of the better units as well. Success rates aren't terrible. And the hunts are before the late gun hunts. I might try one next yr. If so, I might get some of ya'lls insight before but that's a year from now! Anyway, congrats to everyone that drew a tag this yr!

[Explorer]

9 tags in ten years. 1 bull tag and 8 cow tags.If I had to wait a mandated time to put in after I was drawn I would move out of az.I am one of the people who just loves to hunt. Those who choose to only trophy hunt have my respect. To each his own. Just don't complain about the choices you make in life/hunts.

[Explorer]

Oops. This year makes it 10 in 11 years. The missing year was because I didn't put in one year.😃 either chasing late season bulls or that albino cow in the limited opp unit. Life is good.

[Rombo]

Those November late archery tags are terrible hunts! I think I met a guy once who killed a bull once... Go figure!

[1uofacat]

It's not surprising that some who draw a lot of tags, especially those with yet another tag this year, support the current system or are pointing fingers at those who are "venting frustration".

 

A true measure of a person is not what they have, but how they deal with what they do have be that through chance or personally earned.

 

 

BTW, I don't profess to have "internal knowledge" from or of the G&F, but I can say with 100% confidence that there were more charges to hit accounts yesterday. Note that one was a bank charge, and the other a credit card, and there were no phone calls to either (separate apps). Also note that both were for bull only units, first choice was a Sept rifle bull and second was a September archery bull, in a "quality" unit.

[Zoltar]

 

 

I rarely post but I check in often. After all of the various comments the past week I have to say a few things.Yep it is hard to draw a premium elk tag with out a shoot ton of Bone butt points. But it can be done. While I have never drawn a premium tag Im building points in hopes of drawing some day. I now have 11. I don't trust G&F on line draw so I put in the old fashioned way with a check . I still don't know if I drew this year but fingers are crossed and if I don't then I will be out in the field helping other hunters who drew and enjoying the great outdoors and camaraderie .

With all of the hunters applying for elk it's a no brainer that you can't draw a great tag unless you luck out or have max points.IT IS A LOTTERY !! just like buying those dumb butt scratch cards at Giant. Only guess what? You have a much better chance of drawing a tag than ever winning any $$ by scratching those cards.No one cries about not winning $$ as they continue to scratch. Our system is what it is so quit bitching and just keep putting in until the magic day happens. We are lucky to have all of the different big game species to hunt on public land.

Or put in for a late Archery tag and hunt your butt off. From 92 till 05 I drew 4 Nov bull tags and 5 cow tags. Killed 4 cows and 2 bulls. The bull in the photo being one of them which I killed in 05. That was my last tag. The next year is when GF started the early archery hunt in 22 which is what I hope to draw eventually.

If you choose to hunt a Nov archery put in a bunch of time finding bulls then pattern them and see where they drink and where they hang. Or spot and stalk. And spend every day out there hunting hard. Big plus with those hunts is very few hunters are serious. They hunt a few days and find out bulls are not screaming and they go home so you don't run in to a bunch of dips that don't know what they are doing who just ride around in camo on their camo ATV with a bow in the rack, Or they hang out at the bar taping about the 375 bull they saw but could not find him again.

I hunted the bull pictured for THREE years before all things lined up and I was able to kill what I expect is the biggest bull I will ever harvest. The other years I was out there having a blast hunting!!

Ok done with my rant

[rschaumb]

the # 1 - way to solve the problem is a 2-3 yr waiting period to apply if you are successfully drawn

 

As easy as still being able to put in for a bonus point each yr. during your waiting period - + being able to apply for leftovers

 

G&F will still sell every tag every yr and by the 3rd yr - guys will be applying with 5 bpts if you count hunted ed and Loyalty

 

It would rotate the people getting tags -so by the 3rd yr your chances are even better as the odds would

 

be greatly in your favor with the reduced number of available applicants.

 

no more waiting 6- 8 10 yrs on most big game animals

 

much better odds on antelope tags ,

 

Too easy of a solution

 

I would hate this method because I enjoy being able to get drawn ever year or two for "difficult hunts". I would hate getting drawn for a tough hunt and have to wait 2 or 3 years before I can get drawn again. If I wanted to do that I'd put in for better quality hunts that take longer to draw which is what the current system is. I would just rather be out hunting and getting meat for the freezer.

[Heat]

Our state has a combination of a preference point system and a bonus point system. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with the draw rules per se, but the way they execute it could certainly use a little polishing up! The bonus point round where the 20% is set aside acts like a preference point system. If you have more points than anybody else who applies, you get drawn, period. This right here pretty much should shut the mouths of all the people who say "I've waited this long, blah, blah, blah". If you truly have more than anybody else applying you get your tag!!!

 

The one/two pass and 3-5 pass, the other 80% part of the drawing is truly random so anyone who is a resident can pretty much draw any tag in the State, with the exception of a few of the sheep hunts and maybe bull bison. Otherwise, if you are lucky enough or have enough points to get lucky, you can get drawn. It's like a lottery, or drawing, or raffle, or any other game of chance where there are certain trends that can be predicted to some degree but you must recognize that there is an element of CHANCE, fairness goes out the window!!!

 

The way I see it is there are a lot of people who have no clue how the draw actually works, so when they get lucky a couple of times, they almost come to expect certain outcomes, when statistics and trends say otherwise. If they only understood what their actual chances were, I doubt as many people would be getting so worked up about not drawing and creating threads like this to vent.

[Crowbait]

I think more of you should not put in for AZ tags and go to other States. That works for me

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Can the current application system be enhanced? Absolutely. But it seems to me three key elements need to remain in the equation (which can be accomplished) and enough hunters need to stand up and request enhancement to the current system. The three critical elements to the draw process seem to be 1) bonus points so that each year the hunter is unsuccessful in the draw the odds of drawing the following year improve, 2) a certain element of luck (lottery type) so that each year all hunters have a "chance" to draw, even though they may have drawn successfully the previous year or years, 3) AGFD can optimize revenues off the draw to fund their activities.

 

Every year for the last 10 years or so I have proposed "squaring the bonus points" to make them more effective and tighten up the bell curve distribution. I have had a mathematician that worked with me prove this is a legitimate enhancement opportunity. By squaring the bonus points all hunters could expect to be drawn with a few less years of waiting on the sidelines. For example the normal 6+ year wait for a preferred bull hunt could be reduced by 2 years or so less. The change basically would be reducing the luck of the draw slightly, and replacing it with more impactful bonus points. AGFD, whom I have had personal discussions with many times do not seem motivated for my squaring the bonus point change, and surprisingly have given me no explanation why. When I have shared my proposal on this forum numerous times in previous years the hunting population seems to prefer the current system and level of "draw luck" as it stands. I expect nothing will change unless enough of the hunting population expresses a desire for the current system to be enhanced.

[Heat]

Can the current application system be enhanced? Absolutely. But it seems to me three key elements need to remain in the equation (which can be accomplished) and enough hunters need to stand up and request enhancement to the current system. The three critical elements to the draw process seem to be 1) bonus points so that each year the hunter is unsuccessful in the draw the odds of drawing the following year improve, 2) a certain element of luck (lottery type) so that each year all hunters have a "chance" to draw, even though they may have drawn successfully the previous year or years, 3) AGFD can optimize revenues off the draw to fund their activities.

 

Every year for the last 10 years or so I have proposed "squaring the bonus points" to make them more effective and tighten up the bell curve distribution. I have had a mathematician that worked with me prove this is a legitimate enhancement opportunity. By squaring the bonus points all hunters could expect to be drawn with a few less years of waiting on the sidelines. For example the normal 6+ year wait for a preferred bull hunt could be reduced by 2 years or so less. The change basically would be reducing the luck of the draw slightly, and replacing it with more impactful bonus points. AGFD, whom I have had personal discussions with many times do not seem motivated for my squaring the bonus point change, and surprisingly have given me no explanation why. When I have shared my proposal on this forum numerous times in previous years the hunting population seems to prefer the current system and level of "draw luck" as it stands. I expect nothing will change unless enough of the hunting population expresses a desire for the current system to be enhanced.

 

 

 

I'm all ears! Please share your mathemetician's conclusions.

[bhuntin]

What could be better than applying with a cc.....you could use one that expires after you apply ( the day after) or you get fraudulently hit and they will bend over backwards to make sure you receive your tag.With the paper apps if you miss the early put in schedule and for whatever reason ...and you make a mistake on the amount your done. If I'm mistaken on how that works I apologize......

[azgutpile]

Can the current application system be enhanced? Absolutely. But it seems to me three key elements need to remain in the equation (which can be accomplished) and enough hunters need to stand up and request enhancement to the current system. The three critical elements to the draw process seem to be 1) bonus points so that each year the hunter is unsuccessful in the draw the odds of drawing the following year improve, 2) a certain element of luck (lottery type) so that each year all hunters have a "chance" to draw, even though they may have drawn successfully the previous year or years, 3) AGFD can optimize revenues off the draw to fund their activities.Every year for the last 10 years or so I have proposed "squaring the bonus points" to make them more effective and tighten up the bell curve distribution. I have had a mathematician that worked with me prove this is a legitimate enhancement opportunity. By squaring the bonus points all hunters could expect to be drawn with a few less years of waiting on the sidelines. For example the normal 6+ year wait for a preferred bull hunt could be reduced by 2 years or so less. The change basically would be reducing the luck of the draw slightly, and replacing it with more impactful bonus points. AGFD, whom I have had personal discussions with many times do not seem motivated for my squaring the bonus point change, and surprisingly have given me no explanation why. When I have shared my proposal on this forum numerous times in previous years the hunting population seems to prefer the current system and level of "draw luck" as it stands. I expect nothing will change unless enough of the hunting population expresses a desire for the current system to be enhanced.

Instead of squaring, I think they should increase the bonus point pass from 20% to 50%. This will lower the required points to get into the bonus point pass and still gives everybody a chance at getting drawn in the regular draw.

[trphyhntr]

You guys think too much

[ThomC]

As always all of the people who couldn't wait to find out that they did not get drawn are now wanting to change the system. It happens every year. Are these newbies or just something else? LOL