Get Rid of Special Permits?

[Outdoor Writer]

I started a new thread in this section from the one we were having in the Auction Hunt thread in Other Big game. So refer to that one for the earlier discussion.

 

I had a discussion about this thread with one of my contacts at AZ G&FD and also mentioned the suggestions I made concerning elimination of ALL the special tags and replacing them with surcharges and/or a special habitat stamp that everyone pays.

 

He said he could easily support such a move and told me to write it all up and e-mail it to the director's office to be distributed to the commission as a starting point.

 

BUT...he also suggested such a move will get strong opposition from the various self-interest alphabet groups who will claim it will hinder their ability to raise funds at their banquets. I don't think the latter will happen, however, except for the actual money raised through the raffle/auction of the tags. And of course, the whole idea is that the surcharge/stamp revenue will replace that. I did mention that opposition might come from a couple guides, however.

 

Comments??? -TONY

[peloncillo]

I am for helping wildlife and I know the anti's aren't ever going to pony up and pay for wildlife. Arizona just raised their rates for tags and liscenses so I guess my question would be how much are these surcharges/stamps going to cost me? It does sound like a good idea to me and would put everyone on a level playing field.

 

Keven

[jbone]

I'm all for the special permits, I'll never have one unless I win the raffle, but at least I have a chance. I guess as good of a chance as getting any tag in this state. I also now that my money is being put to a good cause. Power to anyone that can bid on and obtain that auction tag for whatever species they decide to bid on, again that money is going to a good cause. If you don't want to be part of the raffle or the auction for these animals, DON'T. Most the hunters in this state probably didn't even know about these tags until the AZSR came about, I don't think these folks would care for extra fee's to make up the for lost revenue this idea would cause.

[KGAINES]

I posted this in another thread also, I seen this thread after the post and it applies here as well.

 

The way auction tag money works as I am told and have seen is this, the commission awards the tags to specific groups for example the ADA, the ADA then auctions it at their banquet. The money raised from this tag sale is kept by the ADA in a tag fund, the azgfd comes to the ADA with projects they would like to work on with the ADA and use tag fund money, or the ADA approaches the azgfd with a project for tag fund money. In a sense that money is taken care of by the specific groups that sale these tags, there is another benefit that I see with these tags and the banquets, the banquets raise money for groups to do projects without the azgfd, these tags bring more than one person to the banquet that is going to spend money. We all like the banquets, the raffles, and the auction items that they have, but there are some of these things that we can't afford that raise alot of money for these groups, these people that are out to buy these tags also spend their money on other stuff at these banquets that in turn helps the groups, and the wildlife in AZ. I would never have known this until I went to the ADA meetings and seen what happens, all of these groups do things that help wildlife and sportsmen. If it was just money collected from tag fees, license fees, or a stamp, the azgfd would have total control of how thee money was spent, good or bad I don't know, but I take a little comfort in knowing that in a way sportsmen have a say in how the money is spent. The auction tag bull was an unfortunate event and I don't know what happened, but in all the years of these tags this is the first time I have heard such a big deal made about it ( and I am not saying that a big deal shouldn't be made),but that tells me that until this year there hadn't been an issue. If we allow a one time bad incident to rush us to change things we could be making it worse, without better options and knowing the ramifications we shouldn't rush to change something without something better lined up.

[Huntn coues]

I am usually with ya Tony but on this one I do not like the proposal. I am in favor of how things are being done now

with the auction tags and raffles tags. Thanks.

 

just my .02

[BigMoqui]

I'm on OW's side on this. The extra amount would only be a few dollars or more depending on species. This is very little to pay considering what we would all get: Improved habitat, a sense of being a part of a solution, and most importantly no more summer shooters.

[Huntn coues]

I'm on OW's side on this. The extra amount would only be a few dollars or more depending on species. This is very little to pay considering what we would all get: Improved habitat, a sense of being a part of a solution, and most importantly no more summer shooters.

 

 

I do not see where this one incident causes the need for a solution.

 

Summer shooters???

[Jimhm]

I have to disagree with you Tony on this one and agree with KGaines. The money that is raised from the auction tags by the ''self-interest alphabet groups'' belongs to the Department but that money is to be used for habitat improvement. The groups at least have a voice in what projects that money goes to and how much money. Each self-interest alphabet group usually turns their dollar into at least 3 dollars by partnering with state or federal agencies or another self-interest alphabet groups money for various projects. I am reluctant to just give the government money and hope that it is used wisely. At least if sportsman are involved it will be easier to keep track of and accountability of the money.

 

Jim

[ultramag]

I say keep the auction tags they raise good money. I just don't like how some people handle their trophy hunts they just become the shooter not the hunter. Elimination only fixes the symptom of the true problem, greed.

[shortpants]

This most recent incident could of and has happend during the regular seasons. Should we ban hunting seasons? The problem has nothing to do with the tags and everything to do with legal and ethical. Those who choose to take the hunt out of hunting and give the rest of us a black eye will have to suffer the consequences. I'm not accusing anyone specific in this case because I wasn't there and don't know what the facts are. If the allegations are true then it makes me sick and very sad. I believe there is much good that can come from these tags and would love to have one!

[rthrbhntng]

I copied this from the G&F website. It is a short rundown on the Auction and Raffle tag monies that are raised.

 

One point that I think is important for the public is to know that when we sit down to prioritize the funding all the groups coordinate on the projects so this is not a one species decision. Most of the projects benefit more than one or two species of Big Game animals as well as lots of non-game wildlife.

 

Habitat Partnerships

Habitat Partnerships play an important role in developing proposals that benefit wildlife habitat

and reduce conflicts with other public land uses. Originating as a means to deal with elk livestock

conflicts, the process developed into one to benefit all big game species. The sale of

Special Big Game License Tags has provided a funding source that can be used to match funds

from outside partners, including land management agencies, nongovernmental organizations, and

federal fund sources, to create landscape habitat plans and bring them to completion. Habitat

Partnership Committees also provide a forum for furthering discussion and collaboration about

wildlife management decisions. Projects are solicited annually on September 1 and evaluated by

an internal Department team for wildlife priority ranking. Funding of projects is then sought

through a variety of sources, although primarily through Special Big Game Tag Funds. Projects

funded through this source are discussed and coordinated with the nongovernmental

organizations that raised the funds, through the sales, by auction or raffle, of the Special Big

Game License tags. Other fund sources (e.g., Landowner Incentive Program grants) are

incorporated into the process. An Arizona Game and Fish Commissioner is the chair of the

Committee that approves final projects.

Special Big Game Tag Fund Process

Under the authority of ARS 17-346 and Commission Rule R12-4-120, the Arizona Game and

Fish Commission awards 3 Big Game License Tags for 9 big game species each, per year to

qualifying conservation organizations who sell the tags by auction or raffle at their annual

fundraising events. The proceeds of these sales are returned to the Department and used to fund

habitat and management projects for the benefit of the game species for which the funds are

raised. Management and research projects are eligible for funding, although most projects are

submitted through the Habitat Partnership Committee Process. Projects are evaluated by the

Department, and priority project funding is coordinated with the qualifying conservation

organizations that raised the funds.

 

Steve

[firstcoueswas80]

I dont think this should be in place at all! The money raised is by people who have the money to pay $130,000 or what ever for an elk tag. They are the ones who are paying that part. People who can't afford $130,000 are still helping by buying out licenses and tags every year... We dont need to HAVE to put more money in, keep it how it is! ANOTHER price increase is the LAST thing we need! Besides, why pay the game and fish more money? I see there bulding a new development, wonder how much of our tax/hunting dollars thats gonna cost us! Asking them to raise the price is like asking them to limit how we hunt some of our grounds ( for those slow people (jim, brian, bryan) im talking about the wilderness proposal) IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE!!!! They have raised our prices enough in the past 5 years, why ASK for another raise?!?!?!? Its not like asking for a raise at work! Its like asking Uncle Sam to TAKE MORE of your hard earned paycheck! Its like shooting your self in the foot!!

[Outdoor Writer]

One comment, and then you all can carry on with yours.

 

As outlined in the other Auction Hunt thread, the proposed surcharge on applications per species will NOT change how the money is spent or doled out. The Habitat Partnership Committee Process will still exist, and the organization that would normally be in the thick of determining projects, etc. will still have the say. The only difference will be WHERE the revenue comes from.

 

The SEPARATE habitat/conservation stamp fee or something similar could be either divided up on a percentage basis to go into the same fund (the old TAG fund for each species) or be kept intact in a separate "tag fund" account for ANY habitat project/improvement for small or big game.

 

Any surcharge for each species would likely be less than the cost of a bottle of beer in Hooters because that's all it would take to make up for the loss of the tag revenue. For the less glamorous species, it would be like maybe $.50 or $1. The habitat/conservation stamp fee would also be nominal at a few bucks.

 

Lastly, the result of any of this will be no NET LOSS of money from what it is now; in fact, it should result in MORE.

-TONY

[Outdoor Writer]

To further illustrate how much some type of $5 habitat stamp might raise, here's another short item I wrote for the NSSF's HuntandShoot web site, where I do short items on 10 western states every two weeks. This one isn't exactly like the one I have in mind, but as you can see, it raises more than $1 milion annually. Of course, we already have such with the Kaibab $15 stamp for those select few that hunt there. -TONY

 

Encourage The Purchase Of Habitat Stamps

The New Mexico Habitat Stamp Program (HSP) is a joint venture between sportsmen and the agencies that manage wildlife and their habitat. Each year, licensed hunters, anglers and trappers who venture on Bureau of Land Management (BLM) or U. S. Forest Service (USFS) lands must purchase the stamp or validation from the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish (NMDGF).

 

The federal Sikes Act authorized the program, which accounts for about $1 million worth of HSP stamps annually sold to sportsmen. These funds go toward habitat conservation and rehabilitation projects, more than 200 of which are in New Mexico each year. Because funding is not available for all projects, they are reviewed and prioritized by a regional Citizens' Advisory Committee (CAC) and, ultimately, by the State Game Commission.

 

Members of the CAC represent sportsmen, public land permittees, wildlife advocates and other outdoor enthusiasts and are responsible for establishing project priority lists. After public comment, the committees set project priorities, which go to the New Mexico State Game Commission for approval.

 

Project work is completed by the responsible agency. Numerous volunteer organizations and individuals contribute expertise and labor during the work phase. Some organizations donate funding to projects to increase its effectiveness or magnitude.

 

The New Mexico Habitat Stamp Program is not just for sportspersons. Anyone interested in New Mexico's wildlife and wildlife habitats is encouraged to purchase the validation and participate in "Helping Wildlife Where it Counts . . . Where Wildlife Lives."

[KGAINES]

Unless these stamps are a requirement it won't work, how many people donate part of their refund to the habitat, I would like to see that data. Also are these stamps going to be species specific, coues, muley, bighorn, elk, etc..., not to mention that I doubt the commission would be able to allocate that money if it was from a stamp to a specific group to monitor it and why would they, and I would hope it wouldn't have to go through the legislature because that could be a train wreck. We have a pretty simple process right now, the super raffle and the auction tags, I like simple especially when it comes to politicians and yes the commissioners are politicians. I see this what could be a stupid mistake made by someone and us turning it into a collosal mistake that could cost hunters, wildlife, and habitat in AZ for many years. We need to let the law do its job, let the process run its course, and let the justice system deal with this as they should in any case like this be it during a regular hunt or a special hunt, and not jump to change something that was not broke.