Over the counter deer tags

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I don't even know why I bother to waste my time posting stuff anymore. Theres always someone who has to make a stupid comment like this guy. Just for your information, I bow hunt just as much as I rifle hunt. Theres is no way in heck that we can allow archery hunters to harvest as many deer as rifle hunters and still support a healthy huntable population year after year. Thats what I am getting at when I say there won't be any deer left for our kids if we kill em all. Hasn't anyone heard of the North American Model? We wouldn't have what we have now, if it wasn't for game laws and restrictions to harvest. The units I am talking about aren't even near the Kiabab. Try units 23 and 22. Yeah they are recieving harvest rates from archers that are equal to the rifle hunters. Plus who said that archers don't get survey cards needs to check the regulations some time. There is a mandatory reporting for successful archery deer hunters.

 

Go ahead and bash my comments. I am done with this post.

 

 

monstercoues....... I respect your point, but I think you are missing a couple of points that make ALL the difference in this case. I do know a little bit about the units you posted above and I assure you that Most of the archery harvests in those units are in habitat areas where there is Very little rifle hunting preasure. Being that Coues deer have a very limited range/territory it would be safe to assume that the archery harvests do very little to the portion of the deer herd that is rifle hunted. Example: If I hunt those units with a bow, I never hunt very close to the places I would rifle hunt.... the diverse terrain makes it very hard to hunt parts of these units successfully with a bow and likewise other places nearly impossible to hunt with a rifle. Furthermore, I do also believe that the data being presented is flawed do to incomplete reporting. The AZGF has also stated that in order to have more hunter opportunity they abolished most of the Dec. whitetail permits in these units and dropped them into a low success Oct. hunt. It theory that has limited the numbers harvested..... and yet rather than using a projected harvest objective, to help promote hunter opportunity, they wish to add these units to the draw so that they can feel like they have issued more permits to more hunters... They are assuming that they can make more of the Diehard archery hunters choose to apply for archery hunts which the Game & Fish has deemed as high demand archery hunts. Thus leaving more rifle tags for Diehard rifle hunters. I don't believe this is about deer numbers at all.... I believe it is about the AZGF's mathematical agenda..... ... If AZGF's possition is about hunter opportunity then they need to be a bit more creative with their proposals.

 

Cns

[tjhunt2]

I don't even know why I bother to waste my time posting stuff anymore. Theres always someone who has to make a stupid comment like this guy. Just for your information, I bow hunt just as much as I rifle hunt. Theres is no way in heck that we can allow archery hunters to harvest as many deer as rifle hunters and still support a healthy huntable population year after year. Thats what I am getting at when I say there won't be any deer left for our kids if we kill em all. Hasn't anyone heard of the North American Model? We wouldn't have what we have now, if it wasn't for game laws and restrictions to harvest. The units I am talking about aren't even near the Kiabab. Try units 23 and 22. Yeah they are recieving harvest rates from archers that are equal to the rifle hunters. Plus who said that archers don't get survey cards needs to check the regulations some time. There is a mandatory reporting for successful archery deer hunters.

 

Go ahead and bash my comments. I am done with this post.

 

 

monstercoues....... I respect your point, but I think you are missing a couple of points that make ALL the difference in this case. I do know a little bit about the units you posted above and I assure you that Most of the archery harvests in those units are in habitat areas where there is Very little rifle hunting preasure. Being that Coues deer have a very limited range/territory it would be safe to assume that the archery harvests do very little to the portion of the deer herd that is rifle hunted. Example: If I hunt those units with a bow, I never hunt very close to the places I would rifle hunt.... the diverse terrain makes it very hard to hunt parts of these units successfully with a bow and likewise other places nearly impossible to hunt with a rifle. Furthermore, I do also believe that the data being presented is flawed do to incomplete reporting. The AZGF has also stated that in order to have more hunter opportunity they abolished most of the Dec. whitetail permits in these units and dropped them into a low success Oct. hunt. It theory that has limited the numbers harvested..... and yet rather than using a projected harvest objective, to help promote hunter opportunity, they wish to add these units to the draw so that they can feel like they have issued more permits to more hunters... They are assuming that they can make more of the Diehard archery hunters choose to apply for archery hunts which the Game & Fish has deemed as high demand archery hunts. Thus leaving more rifle tags for Diehard rifle hunters. I don't believe this is about deer numbers at all.... I believe it is about the AZGF's mathematical agenda..... ... If AZGF's possition is about hunter opportunity then they need to be a bit more creative with their proposals.

 

Cns

 

Well put c&s.

 

TJ

[Dick]

CnS,

 

Well said, I thought a lot about Monstercoues remarks last night and I concur with you completely. I have hunted there myself, I have a nice coues that I harvested there a couple years ago. The country where I took that deer is country where a rifle hunter would probably not want to hunt. Glassing range, 100 yards maybe.

I love the passion that Monstercoues demonstrates though, we all need to have some of that. Apathy, or the attitude of let someone else deal with it will be the downfall of our sport.

[jamaro]

Harvest Amounts Between Rifle and Bowhunters - for me it is about harvest amounts not opportunity.... If in a particular unit 30 rifle hunters take deer then we should aim for 30 bowhunters taking deer... regardless of numbers of hunters...

 

The mandatory reporting is a great idea... How can they manage something that they don't understand... In NM you could report late but it was an extra $10...

 

J-

[KGAINES]

According to AZGFD the coues numbers have been on a steady increase over the last five years, and the mule deer numbers have been on the increase in units on the rim and other northern units while they are on the decline in the southern units due to drought, this is what I heard from them. If the numbers are on the increase then why cut back opportunity with a bow, unless they are looking for a way to increase opportunity with a gun. I don't think it is a money issue with game and fish since they will lose a huge portion of archery hunters by doing this, unless they can recoup the losses by raising tag fees and giving out more rifle tags and the more they give out the 10% out of state number increases as well. Just remember out of state hunters can archery hunt here every year over the counter as well so I don't know if AZGFD would get support from there either.

[fred]

Just out of curiosity, Does anyone know if Game and Fish still does deer counts, to see if the units in question can support the harvest rates they have? In some the units, they want to take to a draw, I have seen more than 20 bucks a day with 6 to 10 being the average.

 

Fred

[ghost hunter]

I too, thought about what Monstercoues was saying. Did some checking around and realized that just 1 local guide had 7-8 clients tag out during the Dec/Jan archery season last year. When you consider that there were only 50 Dec. rifle tags for that unit and a 20% success would be a harvest of 10 deer, this guide alone, accounted for almost as many deer taken as the entire Dec. rifle hunt.

 

Much as I hate to admit it, the late archery hunters may actually be taking more than their fair share.

 

Luckily, I'm not part of that problem. (oh what am I saying?!?!?!?)

 

Any yes Fred33, G&F still does their aerial surveys each year.

[mulie hunter]

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but there is no way archery hunters harvest more deer than rifle hunters, G&F stats don't back that up. And even if the arguement for units 22 &23 are valid, why are people crying, thats 2 units statewide that archery hunters are getting "more than thier fair share" as someone stated. What about all the units rifle hunters are getting way more than thier fair share. Sorry I still am against a archery draw!!!!!

[bowhuntinmaniac]

1st of all, G&F does not have hard facts on their claim, they are managing wildlife by guessing.

2nd, if the above were true, why are we being punished because we kill 1 deer to every 5 that rifle hunters take?

In their hunter recruitment and retention, they are focusing on the weapon group where most hunters will join and hopefully, stay, guns. Forget the others, they simply don't care.

[KGAINES]

I too, thought about what Monstercoues was saying. Did some checking around and realized that just 1 local guide had 7-8 clients tag out during the Dec/Jan archery season last year. When you consider that there were only 50 Dec. rifle tags for that unit and a 20% success would be a harvest of 10 deer, this guide alone, accounted for almost as many deer taken as the entire Dec. rifle hunt.

 

Much as I hate to admit it, the late archery hunters may actually be taking more than their fair share.

 

Luckily, I'm not part of that problem. (oh what am I saying?!?!?!?)

 

Any yes Fred33, G&F still does their aerial surveys each year.

 

 

I think they only give out 50 tags in december because they are giving out 700 plus tags in the oct. and nov. hunts. Now if they can set up a draw in that unit for archery they can give out 50 rifle and lets say 50 archery tags for dec., and then give out 900+ rifle tags and who knows how many archery tags for the oct. and nov. seasons and they can say it is justified.