Non resident changes

[MattMan]

 

 

The way I see it is: it helped residents. I am not complaining as I live in NM and know NR have a tough time drawing here with no BP. It is going to increase points for NR to draw a tag. 5% go to NR's in the top pool. So if you have 150 NR with between 10-15 points that have been applying for one unit, 5 get taken out in the max pool draw, just an example, it is going to take 30 years to get rid of those point holders. Every year they will be increasing points as they apply so if that unit keeps the popularity it will not be able to be drawn in 30 years with 30 points as you still have all the 1-9 point holders to get out of the way.

 

What it is going to do is make NR jump units to get drawn. If I had 11 points and had 100 in front of me with higher points I knew I would not be guaranteed a tag in that unit for about 20-24 years, but I could jump to a different unit that has 9 BP's applying and be guaranteed a tag, drawing out of the 5%. So as a NR I see it jumbling all the units being applied for by NR hunters.

 

The NR that don't draw in the bonus pool, will be put into the regular pool with higher draw odds due to more numbers in the hopper. It's also significantly better for G&F to have a 50+ year old continue to place applications with the off chance that they are able to draw in 5 years instead of 15 years. Keep the G&F budget strong without having to levy increased fees to residents.

 

As a resident, this is a slight benefit to me as the non-bonus pool is now "up to 5%", so in theory there could be less than 10% of tags going to NRs. But its a huge benefit to the G&F budget overall to have more applications from NRs helping to bolster their funds instead of tag rate increases to ALL applicants, NR or Res.

 

I agree with that. The problem I see is if I was in the top percentage where I could have had a tag in 3-4 years and now I see I may not get a tag in 20 years I would be tempted to cash in my points on a different unit and quit applying. The flip side is if I see I can never draw a tag or have to wait 20 years why apply at all? Of course I like elk hunting, any legal elk will do for me, so I only put in here for units I have a high chance of drawing. I have been drawn 8 out of the last 10 years. That is why I like the NM system, other than the limit of 6% to NR, it is all random luck. That and they can get the draw done correctly .

 

 

Actually, NM limits non-guided NR to 6% of the tags issued in the draw. The tags issued in the draw are a varying percentage of the actual total number of tags issued. There are varying numbers of landowner tags in each unit, which are mostly also sold to guided non residents. NM isn't exactly forthcoming with the information on exactly what any of those percentages are. NM won't come out and say it, but they're clearly NOT supporting the DIY public land hunter through accessibility to tags through the draw system. Nor are they supporting youth recruitment of non-residents. It's quite simply a short sighted and small minded approach. Without future residents (VOTERS) in other states supporting hunting and fishing, the argument is already lost.

 

IMHO, for highly sought after tags, a no-point system is better than a system based purely on preference points, but a guy can apply for a lifetime and never have a better chance at a tag. That simply sucks compared to the bonus point system in AZ. At least once you build bonus points, even if it takes 25 years, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Quite a few DIY guys I know, who hunt many western states, simply won't apply for NM with the no-point system, application fees, the the "6%" rule, which isn't anywhere near 6% of the total tags issued to non-residents.

[BeardownAZ]

Moral of the story is the Game and Fish sees another way of getting more revenue. Get more people to put in, means more money. Its not complicated what the motives of people are now days.

[218buck]

Moral of the story is the Game and Fish sees another way of getting more revenue. Get more people to put in, means more money. Its not complicated what motives of people are now days.

Sad but true

[rschaumb]

This change hurts NR with max or near max bonus points and helps those with lower bonus points to even have a chance.

 

In the same way, it helps Residents with max or near max because they can have a minimum of 15% in the bonus round now so more residents will get taken out during the bonus round, possibly lowering the bonus points needed to have a chance. But it will hurt the draw odds for Residents with lower bonus points because there are so many NR that use to not even have a chance after the bonus draw that now can take up to 5% of the tags during the normal draw. And since there are a lot of NR hunters with lots of bonus points in the premium units, there will be more competition during the normal draw. It might not change the odds very much because they still have a cap but it might affect it slightly in a negative way.

[Sneaker]

How so Sneaker? 5% of the 10% that were allotted to NR hunters just got put back in the random draw. So wouldn't that give residents with max points more tags to get a crack at? I think its a good thing for residents!

Like I said, resident with LESS than max are worse off: 20% of the tags are still gone to max point guys, but now, instead of the residents with less than max having ALL of the remaining 80% tags to themselves, now they have the non residents that have a chance at taking up to 5% of those remaining 80%. So now, residents with less than max will almost always get less than 80% of tags, sometimes they will only get 75% of tags, when before they always got at least 80% of tags.

Follow?

[Red Sparky]

 

 

 

The way I see it is: it helped residents. I am not complaining as I live in NM and know NR have a tough time drawing here with no BP. It is going to increase points for NR to draw a tag. 5% go to NR's in the top pool. So if you have 150 NR with between 10-15 points that have been applying for one unit, 5 get taken out in the max pool draw, just an example, it is going to take 30 years to get rid of those point holders. Every year they will be increasing points as they apply so if that unit keeps the popularity it will not be able to be drawn in 30 years with 30 points as you still have all the 1-9 point holders to get out of the way.

 

What it is going to do is make NR jump units to get drawn. If I had 11 points and had 100 in front of me with higher points I knew I would not be guaranteed a tag in that unit for about 20-24 years, but I could jump to a different unit that has 9 BP's applying and be guaranteed a tag, drawing out of the 5%. So as a NR I see it jumbling all the units being applied for by NR hunters.

 

The NR that don't draw in the bonus pool, will be put into the regular pool with higher draw odds due to more numbers in the hopper. It's also significantly better for G&F to have a 50+ year old continue to place applications with the off chance that they are able to draw in 5 years instead of 15 years. Keep the G&F budget strong without having to levy increased fees to residents.

 

As a resident, this is a slight benefit to me as the non-bonus pool is now "up to 5%", so in theory there could be less than 10% of tags going to NRs. But its a huge benefit to the G&F budget overall to have more applications from NRs helping to bolster their funds instead of tag rate increases to ALL applicants, NR or Res.

 

I agree with that. The problem I see is if I was in the top percentage where I could have had a tag in 3-4 years and now I see I may not get a tag in 20 years I would be tempted to cash in my points on a different unit and quit applying. The flip side is if I see I can never draw a tag or have to wait 20 years why apply at all? Of course I like elk hunting, any legal elk will do for me, so I only put in here for units I have a high chance of drawing. I have been drawn 8 out of the last 10 years. That is why I like the NM system, other than the limit of 6% to NR, it is all random luck. That and they can get the draw done correctly .

 

 

Actually, NM limits non-guided NR to 6% of the tags issued in the draw. The tags issued in the draw are a varying percentage of the actual total number of tags issued. There are varying numbers of landowner tags in each unit, which are mostly also sold to guided non residents. NM isn't exactly forthcoming with the information on exactly what any of those percentages are. NM won't come out and say it, but they're clearly NOT supporting the DIY public land hunter through accessibility to tags through the draw system. Nor are they supporting youth recruitment of non-residents. It's quite simply a short sighted and small minded approach. Without future residents (VOTERS) in other states supporting hunting and fishing, the argument is already lost.

 

IMHO, for highly sought after tags, a no-point system is better than a system based purely on preference points, but a guy can apply for a lifetime and never have a better chance at a tag. That simply sucks compared to the bonus point system in AZ. At least once you build bonus points, even if it takes 25 years, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Quite a few DIY guys I know, who hunt many western states, simply won't apply for NM with the no-point system, application fees, the the "6%" rule, which isn't anywhere near 6% of the total tags issued to non-residents.

 

You need to look at NM in two ways. The draw and LO tags. They are completely different from each other.

 

First the draw which does limit non-guided NR to 6% of the tags. If you go to the web site and look up the full draw chart you will see it broken down by unit how the draw worked. 6% or more do go to non-guided NR hunters. Here is an example for unit 17, elk, archery, here in NM: Residents 84%, NR 6.4%, guided 10.4%. There is the possibility of 16.8% of tags going to NR hunters, after all you only have to contract with a guide/outfitter for a drop camp to be in the guided pool. If you want to find it it is called 2015-Drawing-Odds-Complete- Report on the G&F website.

 

Now as far as youth recruitment: I guess they don't have youth only hunts. Unit 13 Elk, Muzzle Loader, Youth-Only: 84% R, 8% NR non-guided, 12% guided. I am not sure how many R youth applied for the guided hunt but you are looking at a possibility of 20% going to NR youth. They also don't have youth encouragement hunts for youths that don't draw. Residents get to apply for those first, then NR youths can apply for the left over tags. A NR youth can buy a tag to hunt elk if they don't draw on a first come first serve basis so there is opportunity for youth hunters.

 

Second LO tags. LO tags are not a percentage of the draw tags but separately derived to compensate LO for the wildlife usage of their land. Remember the rancher that shot the herd of elk and left them to rot? Now the LO can use the tags or do nothing with the tags, it is up to them so you can't include them in the draw.

 

Now LO tags can be unit wide or Ranch Only. Any hunter drawn has full access to that UW ranch like the UW LO tag holders, and the UW LO tag holder has access to the whole unit. Now the RO designation, the DIY draw hunter can't access the ranch (unless you are willing to pay many $$$) and the ranch tag holders can't hunt off the ranch. The state can't make private landowners open their land to hunters so those tags can't be included in the draw. What most don't realize is the state is managing two different elk herds, those on public land and those on private land.

 

I won't buy a LO tag but don't have anything against those that do or the land owners that sell them.