Non resident changes

[218buck]

What exactly is it that they changed for the draw for non residents?

[bonecollector777]

Used to be that the 10% of the tags they were allowed to have could all go in the bonus pass. Making it where only top point holders could get the best tags. They now changed it to where 5% can go to top bonus point holders and the other 5% go in the random draw so now everyone had a slim chance of drawing. Screwed the guys with high points to make it where guys with low or no points would want to keep putting in rather than giving up on AZ knowing they couldn't draw the best tags.

[kadillackountry]

I'm a resident, but I've been reading up on the changes for some buddies that have been trying to come down to AZ to hunt Elk. Basically, they are allotting 5% of the tags to non-residents during bonus point round. Thus, the other 5% of tags will be allotted to non-residents through the regular draw rounds. Goal from G&F is to keep people interested in having a chance at drawing before they reach the bonus round. Before, you basically had to have the bonus points necessary to draw in a particular unit to get drawn. With the change, theoretically, you could draw starting in year 1. G&F were loosing a ton of applicants that would put in for 10-15 years, but once they draw wouldn't want to wait another 10-15+ years for their bonus points to build up (maybe they are in their 50s/60s and don't think they will be able to hunt AZ again). Implication will be hard to tell, but in the short run it should raise the bonus points necessary to draw for sure (since there is only half the tags available in the bonus round for non-residents). Long run though, it should lower the bonus points since 5% of the tags are now being drawn outside the bonus point round. Hope that helps.

[yotebuster]

I'm a resident, but I've been reading up on the changes for some buddies that have been trying to come down to AZ to hunt Elk. Basically, they are allotting 5% of the tags to non-residents during bonus point round. Thus, the other 5% of tags will be allotted to non-residents through the regular draw rounds. Goal from G&F is to keep people interested in having a chance at drawing before they reach the bonus round. Before, you basically had to have the bonus points necessary to draw in a particular unit to get drawn. With the change, theoretically, you could draw starting in year 1. G&F were loosing a ton of applicants that would put in for 10-15 years, but once they draw wouldn't want to wait another 10-15+ years for their bonus points to build up (maybe they are in their 50s/60s and don't think they will be able to hunt AZ again). Implication will be hard to tell, but in the short run it should raise the bonus points necessary to draw for sure (since there is only half the tags available in the bonus round for non-residents). Long run though, it should lower the bonus points since 5% of the tags are now being drawn outside the bonus point round. Hope that helps.

The only downfall from a NR perspective (unless you've been at or very near max) is the 5% that go in the random pass are not guaranteed to go to NR. They can have "up to" 5% of the random draw but are not guaranteed those tags. So it benefits a resident hunter a bit while also benefitting any NR that was several pts shy of max. Kinda hosed the NR with near max though

[Red Sparky]

The way I see it is: it helped residents. I am not complaining as I live in NM and know NR have a tough time drawing here with no BP. It is going to increase points for NR to draw a tag. 5% go to NR's in the top pool. So if you have 150 NR with between 10-15 points that have been applying for one unit, 5 get taken out in the max pool draw, just an example, it is going to take 30 years to get rid of those point holders. Every year they will be increasing points as they apply so if that unit keeps the popularity it will not be able to be drawn in 30 years with 30 points as you still have all the 1-9 point holders to get out of the way.

 

What it is going to do is make NR jump units to get drawn. If I had 11 points and had 100 in front of me with higher points I knew I would not be guaranteed a tag in that unit for about 20-24 years, but I could jump to a different unit that has 9 BP's applying and be guaranteed a tag, drawing out of the 5%. So as a NR I see it jumbling all the units being applied for by NR hunters.

[Sneaker]

It makes things slightly worse for residents with less than max points for individual hunts as well.

[AZ_SAWBUCK]

How so Sneaker? 5% of the 10% that were allotted to NR hunters just got put back in the random draw. So wouldn't that give residents with max points more tags to get a crack at? I think its a good thing for residents!

[kadillackountry]

The way I see it is: it helped residents. I am not complaining as I live in NM and know NR have a tough time drawing here with no BP. It is going to increase points for NR to draw a tag. 5% go to NR's in the top pool. So if you have 150 NR with between 10-15 points that have been applying for one unit, 5 get taken out in the max pool draw, just an example, it is going to take 30 years to get rid of those point holders. Every year they will be increasing points as they apply so if that unit keeps the popularity it will not be able to be drawn in 30 years with 30 points as you still have all the 1-9 point holders to get out of the way.

 

What it is going to do is make NR jump units to get drawn. If I had 11 points and had 100 in front of me with higher points I knew I would not be guaranteed a tag in that unit for about 20-24 years, but I could jump to a different unit that has 9 BP's applying and be guaranteed a tag, drawing out of the 5%. So as a NR I see it jumbling all the units being applied for by NR hunters.

 

The NR that don't draw in the bonus pool, will be put into the regular pool with higher draw odds due to more numbers in the hopper. It's also significantly better for G&F to have a 50+ year old continue to place applications with the off chance that they are able to draw in 5 years instead of 15 years. Keep the G&F budget strong without having to levy increased fees to residents.

 

As a resident, this is a slight benefit to me as the non-bonus pool is now "up to 5%", so in theory there could be less than 10% of tags going to NRs. But its a huge benefit to the G&F budget overall to have more applications from NRs helping to bolster their funds instead of tag rate increases to ALL applicants, NR or Res.

[kadillackountry]

As a resident it also should lower the bonus point round as now 15% of tags are applied to residents through the bonus point round.

[Titanium700]

I don't like the idea of "up to 5% could go to nonresidents"

That just lowered the 10% nonresident cap....I foresee a lawsuit coming.

[bonecollector777]

I don't like the idea of "up to 5% could go to nonresidents"

That just lowered the 10% nonresident cap....I foresee a lawsuit coming.

NR were never guaranteed 10%. It's always been up to 10% so technically it's the same as it was just 5% can go to different NR. Not just top bonus point holders.

[yotebuster]

 

I don't like the idea of "up to 5% could go to nonresidents"

That just lowered the 10% nonresident cap....I foresee a lawsuit coming.

NR were never guaranteed 10%. It's always been up to 10% so technically it's the same as it was just 5% can go to different NR. Not just top bonus point holders.

Thanks for pointing that out. You are correct. I misunderstood it.

[Titanium700]

As did I

[Red Sparky]

 

The way I see it is: it helped residents. I am not complaining as I live in NM and know NR have a tough time drawing here with no BP. It is going to increase points for NR to draw a tag. 5% go to NR's in the top pool. So if you have 150 NR with between 10-15 points that have been applying for one unit, 5 get taken out in the max pool draw, just an example, it is going to take 30 years to get rid of those point holders. Every year they will be increasing points as they apply so if that unit keeps the popularity it will not be able to be drawn in 30 years with 30 points as you still have all the 1-9 point holders to get out of the way.

 

What it is going to do is make NR jump units to get drawn. If I had 11 points and had 100 in front of me with higher points I knew I would not be guaranteed a tag in that unit for about 20-24 years, but I could jump to a different unit that has 9 BP's applying and be guaranteed a tag, drawing out of the 5%. So as a NR I see it jumbling all the units being applied for by NR hunters.

 

The NR that don't draw in the bonus pool, will be put into the regular pool with higher draw odds due to more numbers in the hopper. It's also significantly better for G&F to have a 50+ year old continue to place applications with the off chance that they are able to draw in 5 years instead of 15 years. Keep the G&F budget strong without having to levy increased fees to residents.

 

As a resident, this is a slight benefit to me as the non-bonus pool is now "up to 5%", so in theory there could be less than 10% of tags going to NRs. But its a huge benefit to the G&F budget overall to have more applications from NRs helping to bolster their funds instead of tag rate increases to ALL applicants, NR or Res.

 

I agree with that. The problem I see is if I was in the top percentage where I could have had a tag in 3-4 years and now I see I may not get a tag in 20 years I would be tempted to cash in my points on a different unit and quit applying. The flip side is if I see I can never draw a tag or have to wait 20 years why apply at all? Of course I like elk hunting, any legal elk will do for me, so I only put in here for units I have a high chance of drawing. I have been drawn 8 out of the last 10 years. That is why I like the NM system, other than the limit of 6% to NR, it is all random luck. That and they can get the draw done correctly .

[MattMan]

Game and fish could have applied the same bonus pass cap to NR as they do to residents, and limited it to up to 20% of NR tags issued in the bonus pass. NR used to get up to 100% of NR tags issued in the bonus pass, basically making it impossible for a NR with less than max points to draw quite a few tags in AZ. Now NR get up to 50% of NR tags issued in the bonus pass. I think it's a good thing for just about any NR, except for those with max points that won't apply for anything but the very highly sought after tags. In most cases those individuals are applying for several states and building points in all of those states. This move is a step to making hunting accessible to all, especially youth, who haven't been alive or old to enough to apply long enough to have max points, even if it's slim odds... to continue to pass on the tradition of hunting, you have to make it accessible to youth. Without the next generation of passionate outdoors men and women, that tradition and understanding of the outdoors will be lost.

 

There are western hunts that my children will NEVER have a chance to draw unless that state modifies the rules of tag allocation. They simply can't live long enough to catch the point creep.