Boquillas new rules / permit structure out

[.270]

Max, also, you seem to feel that having to sell cattle in a dry spell is uncommon. It happens all the time. The reason you pay $15+ a pound for a good steak is because of the hellish drought in the southwest 5 years ago. Just texas hauled over 2 million head to the slaughter house in less than a year. Beef went way down for awhile. Now it's sky high because the ranchers haven't got their herds built back up. They all had to pay high prices to haul their cattle too. Again, it's the price of doing business. None of the things you've stated are any different than anything any other cow operation has to do. But the vast majority of them don't charge the owners to use the land. Lark.

[stillatmaxpoints]

270 you missed the point of the entire post, as far as drought that is part of the business, you missed the point there to.

[Str8Shot]

The People Are The state just as The People are the country ... Governments, municipalities and State Departments Depts are their to represent the the people at every level, this is the very reason you pay taxes...The State Trust Land Department serves teh public funding Education K-12 ( makes you wonder why all the issues with education) and the 12 other beneficiaries, which were chosen by the voters.

State Trust lands are not the same as Federal lands because they were given to create a foundation and means to fund and grow an education ( in most states ) As a Resident or Non Resident, your hunting license is your permit to use State Trust Lands....

TO say that Tax dollars are not and have not been spent to create and maintain roads on state trust land is inaccurate, just as It would be inaccurate to say No roads and easements are built and maintained by Lease Holders... To enforce Laws on State Trust land, agencies paid by TAX Dollars are used.

 

Oh and Voters approved State Trust Land Swaps as well ...

G&F does not own the States Wild Life

Big Bo Does not own the States Wild Life (oh and the heard grew based on laws of nature not G&F trying to screw over ranchers and offer more tags)

Big Bo Should not be able to deny access to some while profiting off the few ... We are all Tax payers , Who Purchase a Hunting License ( which includes your permit for State Trust Land use) , all in pursuit of OUR BIG GAME ...

 

I honestly do not care that much about unit 10 , helped out on one hunt and seen what a cluster ______ that unit can be and that was Years ago ... I do care for all the fellow hunters who loved that unit and now put their BP's chasing Other Units ( i do not like odds in my preference units ) because they have gotten sick of the access issues and money grabs ... Lots of these Guys who not only volunteered for big clean ups and projects in the area but who also always took out more trash and left that area in better shape then when they arrived.

 

p.s. - If the Elk herd is such a burden on resources and the cost of the ranch than hunters would be doing the rancher a solid ! Kind of like the guy down south , who in the bar before opening weekend was giving invites to hunt in and around his ranch and giving a bounty for a lion kill ....

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

Still is not right for private ranch to buy every other or less PC of land and leave the checker board in between owned by the state and yet lay claim to the state land. Big loop hole, just like the government operates. So I guess from the sob story the ranch is losing money and they need us to bring hot meals to keep them fed? Buy the land and have good ethics or use the loop holes and hide behind them. I'm not buying this sad story.

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

We have every right to hunt state land so I say me and a few buddies will start throwing some wild coyote hunting parties on said locked up state land the ranch lays claim to and locks up. I'll call randy Newburg and we can go in via helicopter with lots if noise making items and hunt yotes for a couple weeks.

[.270]

Didn't miss any point. Just emphasized the things you tried to gloss over. I'll lease every acre I can get for fifty cents a year and I won't whine about it or make taxpayers pay for access. The bo is locking up 250,000 acres of "public" land. I don't see where folks can't understand that. This place has been a scam since the tribe bought it a week after the browns did , for over $7 million more and macdonald went to prison over it. I think its high time that all the checkerboard crap is returned to the taxpayers. Lark

[trphyhntr]

FYI, correct information concerning the Boquillas ranch

 

 

First i am not a employee of the ranch or hunt program, and i am not a outfitter.

 

 

The ranch is right at two thirds private land and one third Arizona state trust lands. Arizona state trust lands are not public lands,

 

 

you sound like a shill to me.

[Phil Beavers]

$500 to hunt a limited entry private elk ranch in prime genetic monster bull country and yall are complaining. plz go

I'd pay it !

[stillatmaxpoints]

The grazing fee's fluctuate, depending on cattle price for a year. The cost of infrastructure development and maintenance of ranch improvements for roads, water and fence's etc is much higher per animal unit than the grazing fee's. The cost to raise a calf to a point he is marketable on todays market with today's expenses can be anywhere from $500.00 to $800.00 per head, depending on the ranch, that would be about $60.00 per cow and calf per month to maintain that animal unit not complaining that is just real world cost on todays market, and everyone has to deal with it. The point is elk utilize just about as much feed and water as a cow does, so they have to be figured into the expense cost for the ranch. That is not an issue if there is not a large herd of elk on the ranch, say 4 or 5 hundred, but when you get into the thousands, that is a cost that any business would could not tolerate. Simple example if you were in the restaurant business and you owned the building(private property) or say you leased the building and 30 to 40 percent of the the people came in and had a meal and beverage than just left with out paying for anything, i suspect you probably would not like the outcome.

The trespass fee is just to help off set some of these expenses.

 

Private land on the ranch is about 500,000 acres, 99.9 percent of the water for wildlife and cattle on private and state trust lands is owned by the ranch. The road system on the ranch is owned and maintained by the ranch.

[ruthunter]

I will say this..if you draw an archery goat tag in 10 and you don't pay the fee or you try and get on and its full you are screwed. I hunted it last year and yes there are goats outside the ranch but there few and far between compared to whats on the BO. There also more pressured as every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a tag is looking at everything outside the ranch as the ranch doesn't open for scouting until a few weeks before the opener. Im not saying you cant kill a goat outside the BO im saying the odds are tougher. I believe the Babbit and Espee ranch are still free to hunt but the population of goats don't match the BO. The archery success will drop in 10 just my 02.

[Str8Shot]

The grazing fee's fluctuate, depending on cattle price for a year. The cost of infrastructure development and maintenance of ranch improvements for roads, water and fence's etc is much higher per animal unit than the grazing fee's. The cost to raise a calf to a point he is marketable on todays market with today's expenses can be anywhere from $500.00 to $800.00 per head, depending on the ranch, that would be about $60.00 per cow and calf per month to maintain that animal unit not complaining that is just real world cost on todays market, and everyone has to deal with it. The point is elk utilize just about as much feed and water as a cow does, so they have to be figured into the expense cost for the ranch. That is not an issue if there is not a large herd of elk on the ranch, say 4 or 5 hundred, but when you get into the thousands, that is a cost that any business would could not tolerate. Simple example if you were in the restaurant business and you owned the building(private property) or say you leased the building and 30 to 40 percent of the the people came in and had a meal and beverage than just left with out paying for anything, i suspect you probably would not like the outcome.

The trespass fee is just to help off set some of these expenses.

 

Private land on the ranch is about 500,000 acres, 99.9 percent of the water for wildlife and cattle on private and state trust lands is owned by the ranch. The road system on the ranch is owned and maintained by the ranch.

Here again you say the Size of the Elk Herd is such a big cost and burden , but the solution is to charge ( limiting a lot of people) , and put caps on hunts limiting hunters again ? Does it make any sense to limit the very people that could help balance out the numbers and help limit the cost annually to the ranch ? They try to paint the fee as going towards cleaning up and making repairs necessary because of the Hunters, I am not buying it neither is the majority of other hunters... If the Elk Herd were Lions taking slaughtering 20 head a day , I bet they would be begging for every possible hunter to come take one out ... But in a sense , Because Each Head of Beef is $$$$$$ and The cost per Head increases by the cost of grazing, watering and infrastructure( just as mortality and loss to predation ads to the cost per head) you are making a herd of Elk equal to that of predators , it comes down to dollars and cents. So again please answer me how limiting and locking out the very people holding the very tags to limit the burden of the Elk heard , directly impacting the cost per head, is the solution ? The herd is going to continue to grow and Big Bo will continue to raise cost to offset the $$$$$ per head they feel they are losing due to the herd using resources, cause lets face it somewhere someone thought that was a good idea and that is really what the dang fees are.

 

Big Bo is Holding State Trust Land and Everyone's Wildlife Hostage and if you pay the Ransom every year you can get a shot ... Sounds a little like extortion to me.

[Red Sparky]

Yep land trades happen all the time. Look at the land trade here in NM by Mount Taylor where the ranchers got the cream and hunters were left with the hind tit. The other land trade that just happened here was 8800 acres were sold to Cochiti Pueblo so the SLO could buy a building in downtown Santa Fe for revenues. Sounds like a real good deal for hunters and other outdoor enthusiast that used those 8800 acres.

[C. Cordova]

Does anyone else find it ironic that the Hunt Manager/Director of Hunting for the ranch, Lee Murphy, is also a guide for Exclusive Pursuit Outfitters?

[ThomC]

If it is such a problem to raise cattle on the Bo then why did they buy it. They are just trying to change the deal after the fact. But, the bottom line the Bo is just trying to get more money any way they can. The state land department is in the pockets of the powerful ranching lobby. Follow the money.

[5guyshunting]

I think the outfitters will buy up all the access permits for the high demand hunts. You either hire one or hunt your goat off of I -40.

Early bull rifle and archery could still be accomplished off of the big bo, but there will be a crowd. If you put in for early bull rifle or archery and plan on getting a Bo permit I think the outfitters will own them. I might be wrong , but thats my 2 cents.