Boquillas new rules / permit structure out

[yotebuster]

There are land trades all the time that this happens. However you need both parties to want the trade. There is no benefit in a land trade for the tribe as they would not get as big a lease price for half the amount of land. The ranch would not want this as I doubt they are paying anything to the state to feed their cattle on the state land as it is now.

This ^

[.270]

Hey punky. Why ain't you some famous guy? You may be smarter "then" anybody. As smart as you, ewe are you, ewe oughta have your, you're own reality show. You, ewe think business deals just happen? Sounds like it. Like Jim said, land swaps happen all the time. Usually it's for, 4 a mine or, ore an oil field or, ore some sorta deal, but it happens a lot. There is a method. As long as you make the newly public land available for lease to the guy you just swapped with, they don't loose any assets. You act like I'm just gonna go up there and kick em to one, won side or, ore the other. Things don't work that way. Anyone smarter "then" you, ewe probly knows, no's that. Folks have been working on a land swap for a mine in Az for, 4 many years. Az even had a congressman go to prison because he tried to make money on it. Go live in your little world where you're, your the smartest guy. "Than" you'll be, bee happy. Lark

[brian390]

I just don't think that they should be able to keep hunters out or charge to hunt on it since it's checkerboard land. I think that if they want to keep people out they should have to buy the rest of the land in the checkerboard area. I hope that makes sense but if it doesn't that's what I think.

[.270]

That's kinda what most folks in Az think. At least one hooplehead disagrees and thinks we have no right to public land tho. And he is smarter "then" the rest of us, because he said so. Lark

[trphyhntr]

i think you all know what you need to do. Occupy Boquillas. ill look for you all on the news

[.270]

Cool. That place is so big the newsys'd never find ya to report it. Lark

[5guyshunting]

I wonder how the annual Boquillas volunteer clean up will turn out this year.

[naturebob]

When I hunted the Bo this year I took a dump on every Mtn. That makes Me feel better about this thing now and THEN!...........BOB!

[HuntHarder]

Yotebuster- you have to agree that checkerboard land ownership is a HUGE problem. The fact is, it is checkerboard, but treated like private. How would the rancher feel, if we treated it like public land? He would be pissed and throw a fit. The tribe has a sweetheart deal going, and they are taking advanteage of it. I am all for LANDOWNER rights. I quit siding with landowners, when they only own half the land, however are able to control ALL the land. I still can not believe that we let the tribe work us over many years ago. I do not have a solution to the problem of checkerboard land, but know if the ranch wasn't so big, Game and fish would have ended hunting on it like they did in 19b in 2011. I see Lark's solution as viable and as fair as it can possibly be. Negotiations are the only way, but I highly doubt they will take place any time soon. Instead, we will continue on the same path of increased rules and fees to hunt the Bo.

 

Some of the Outfitters, that have claim to sections of the Bo, are grinning ear to ear and probably just went and bought new pickups and rangers when the new rule structure was released.

[Elitegt500]

Azgfd has like $700,000 in the new budget proposal "to attract more hunters, provide grants to land owners in exchange for hunter access to their property, and support habitat restoration". That's a lot of money helping with problems like this.

[.270]

Don't try to splain it to punky boy. It's more "then" he can comprehend. He's still trying to figger out which way to split it and he thinks, that I think, it can be done in a day. He's from baja canada. Only kinda bidness he understands is his patients,patience. Lark

[stillatmaxpoints]

FYI, correct information concerning the Boquillas ranch

First i am not a employee of the ranch or hunt program, and i am not a outfitter. I have done business with the present lessee, and i was involved with the hunt program early on.

 

The ranch is right at two thirds private land and one third Arizona state trust lands. Arizona state trust lands are not public lands, you can go to the Arizona state land department web site and read there mandate, they are not multiple use lands like federal lands are(forest service BLM)

All of the improvements on these trust lands are built and maintained by the lessee and owned by the lessee, examples dirt stock tanks, metal water storage tanks, water troughs, pipelines, fence's etc. The water runoff that collects in the dirt stock tanks is owned by the state of Arizona, all of the pumped water(400 miles of pipeline on the Boquillas) is owned by the ranch, it is piped from a private well at considerable expense, again we are talking about state trust lands, on the private lands the ranch owns the grass, water, and all improvements.

Any water trough or metal storage tank on trust lands, the water is owned by the ranch. The Boquillas ranch pays the Arizona state land dept, approximately $130,000.00 per year for the grazing fee's, that is for the grass only, all other expenses on trust lands is paid for by the ranch.

All dirt roads on the ranch be it private or state trust lands are built and maintained by the ranch, there are no county maintained roads on the ranch.

As many of you know this is a dry arid part of Arizona, with no live streams, very few springs or seeps. There is a book written by Dave Brown former G&F employee about the history of wildlife in Arizona in the !800"s, the early explorers found little or no wildlife in this part of Arizona which now the Boquillas. Realistically there would not be a huntable population of any big game animal on the Boquillas if not for the millions of dollars spent on this ranch for water development and maintenance over the years.

The ranch is not anti wildlife or anti hunter, but the impact of hunting and wildlife, (mostly elk) is a huge cost on water and grass on private lands, and water on trust lands.

If you go back to say 1989 and look up the amount of permits for elk(i have)from 1989 until present you will see each year the permits were increased as the elk herd grew from a couple of hundred permits up to present where it is over 2000. Game and Fish grew the elk herd for hunter opportunity at the expense of the ranch. The ranch over the years has had to reduce its carrying capacity because of the increase of elk. This ranch is a very serious large cattle business operation, and the bottom line on the balance sheet is important.

Just so you know in 2002 one of the driest rainfall years on record, the Boquillas had to ship all of the cattle off the ranch, at a cost of a over a million dollars until it started raining again. The lessee left all of the pumped water on for the wildlife during that dry time when the cattle were off the ranch. The cost to just pump the water at the well is over $3000.00 per month.

[pirogue]

Thanks for the info, stillatmaxpoints.

[Swivelhead]

Welcome to the site and thanks for your informative post.

[.270]

Max, The $ the bo pays is the price of doing business. Every rancher in Az pays grazing fees to someone. If they pay $130k per year, for 250,000 acres,that's about 50 cents per acre, per year. Still sound expensive? Sounds like a bargain to me. I'll pay that for all I could get, just to hunt on it. I'd bet it wouldn't take much to get some folks together to pay more than that. Never mind running cattle. Pipelines, tanks, fences, roads, etc are all things that all ranchers pay for, one way or another. The Bo is no exception. Nothing you've said is much different than what any other rancher had to do. There are gov't grants available for part of some things that have to be done, and I guarantee you the bo has taken advantage of them. And you can use what terms you want to describe publicly held land. It is still part of the state and belongs to the taxpayers and there are very concise and defined methods to allow sportsmen to hunt and fish on state land, contrary to what you imply. I'm very familiar with running cattle and the fees involved. I'm as pro rancher as there is. I'm also pro me getting to use public land to hunt and fish without having to pay someone to use it. So are most other folks. I feel Hunt harder explained it quite well. Lark