Auction Elk Tag filled ???

[Noel Arnold]

Tony,

You are right they did have the elk draw early this year.Other states have been doing this for years.If a state gets your money right after the first of the year and do not refund your money until 6 months later they are going to make money on interest.Most people(including me)do not mind this.My intent was to show that there are other way's to get the money.I am not a department basher.But I do feel that there are better way's to raise money then This.

Noel.

[Outdoor Writer]

Tony,

If a state gets your money right after the first of the year and do not refund your money until 6 months later they are going to make money on interest.

 

But that's not what they do. Even the states with the early draws don't hold money for six months. Perhaps there is even something legally involved in doing such, i.e. a STATUTE, only changeable by the legislature, as opposed to a simple rule, which the game department can easily alter. I'll research it when I have time.

 

Of course, they could also make EVERYONE pay the license and tag fees upfront to garner more interest over the short term. -TONY

[BigMoqui]

I am in no way envious of this tag holder at all. I have a certain method of hunting and I have my own code of ethics and morals that I live by. If I break these rules I have to face myself, and that is much worse than anything that any wm, sheriff, or court of law could do to me. I wonder how the guy felt while he was taking the shot? Somebody mentioned that we don't know the guy or what he was thinking, but I sure do know what I would have been thinking.

[Outdoor Writer]

I am in no way envious of this tag holder at all. I have a certain method of hunting and I have my own code of ethics and morals that I live by. If I break these rules I have to face myself, and that is much worse than anything that any wm, sheriff, or court of law could do to me. I wonder how the guy felt while he was taking the shot? Somebody mentioned that we don't know the guy or what he was thinking, but I sure do know what I would have been thinking.

 

Big,

 

I'm with you. That's why I don't hunt anything over planted baits. I did it a few times in my younger days and decided it's not for me. If someone else enjoys doing it, they can knock themselves out. -TONY

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but.... I will any way. Hunters need to stand together. Auction hunts are the best thing ever for wildlife!!! They produce massive amounts of $$$$$$$ that benifit that species..... transplants, surveys, water projects, etc.... as well as local economies. There are definately two sides to this story... just like any other. I think that we should let the cards fall where they will before any judgement is passed.... there are alot of very reputable hunters/guides involved and I am sure that the truth will settle all the BS and mudslinging that is going on. In the mean time..... I, once again, suggest that we all focus on our cause and our passions.... before the Anti's slaughter us as we stand divided....again.

[wetmule]

Good post CnS, I completely agree with your take.

The few auction and raffle tags (3 of each species) that are distributed to the conservation groups are not factored at all when the G&F sets the permits. In other words no one is taking away any potential permits from any average joe in the draw. Now if you are talking Utah where they give out hundreds of special permits, that is a different story and one I don't agree with. I believe Az is at its max with regards to the commissioners tags and I don't see any scenario where they will authorize more. The few we do have here have literally raised millions of dollars for wildlife, habitat, water etc. as explained above by CnS, and one need only to venture into the field to see all the work done by those dollars that would not have happened otherwise.

[Outdoor Writer]

There are definately two sides to this story... just like any other.

 

The only two sides are whether he was 439 yards or less from a dwelling or 441 or more. And all that decides is the LEGALITY of it all. The aesthetics will still stink regardless of any additional information. It's the equivalent of killing a bull on the front lawn of the hotel in Mammoth if hunting was legal in YNP. -TONY

[dustyb0]

Good post CnS, I completely agree with your take.

The few auction and raffle tags (3 of each species) that are distributed to the conservation groups are not factored at all when the G&F sets the permits. In other words no one is taking away any potential permits from any average joe in the draw. Now if you are talking Utah where they give out hundreds of special permits, that is a different story and one I don't agree with. I believe Az is at its max with regards to the commissioners tags and I don't see any scenario where they will authorize more. The few we do have here have literally raised millions of dollars for wildlife, habitat, water etc. as explained above by CnS, and one need only to venture into the field to see all the work done by those dollars that would not have happened otherwise.

The -scenario- will be MONEY.You can bet on it.

[mjmhunter]

I always stay out of these kinda discussions due to them always going round and round and potentially giving more ammo to the anti's. However, I think everybody needs to read Gino's post again no matter where you stand in all this. I think he hit it right on the nose.---Manny

 

 

I hate to sound like a broken record, but.... I will any way. Hunters need to stand together. Auction hunts are the best thing ever for wildlife!!! They produce massive amounts of $$$$$$$ that benifit that species..... transplants, surveys, water projects, etc.... as well as local economies. There are definately two sides to this story... just like any other. I think that we should let the cards fall where they will before any judgement is passed.... there are alot of very reputable hunters/guides involved and I am sure that the truth will settle all the BS and mudslinging that is going on. In the mean time..... I, once again, suggest that we all focus on our cause and our passions.... before the Anti's slaughter us as we stand divided....again.

[Huntn coues]

I always stay out of these kinda discussions due to them always going round and round and potentially giving more ammo to the anti's. However, I think everybody needs to read Gino's post again no matter where you stand in all this. I think he hit it right on the nose.---Manny

 

 

I hate to sound like a broken record, but.... I will any way. Hunters need to stand together. Auction hunts are the best thing ever for wildlife!!! They produce massive amounts of $$$$$$$ that benifit that species..... transplants, surveys, water projects, etc.... as well as local economies. There are definately two sides to this story... just like any other. I think that we should let the cards fall where they will before any judgement is passed.... there are alot of very reputable hunters/guides involved and I am sure that the truth will settle all the BS and mudslinging that is going on. In the mean time..... I, once again, suggest that we all focus on our cause and our passions.... before the Anti's slaughter us as we stand divided....again.

 

I SECOND IT. This is getting way out of hand. Wait for the REAL story to come out and make your own final thoughts.

 

STICK together guy's and do not let this tear us apart. If we don't we will LOSE big.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

There are definately two sides to this story... just like any other.

 

The only two sides are whether he was 439 yards or less from a dwelling or 441 or more. :rolleyes: And all that decides is the LEGALITY of it all. The aesthetics will still stink regardless of any additional information. It's the equivalent of killing a bull on the front lawn of the hotel in Mammoth if hunting was legal in YNP. -TONY

 

 

From what I hear that is Not so cut and dried either..... We should wait to see how it all unfolds.... I think we all want to draw conclusions, and we all really should not..... there is nothing to be gained from all the finger pointing. Right or wrong will be measured by the law not by opinion. I bet we will all hear our fair share of the "facts" before it is over..... it will all be sorted out and we will all here the results. Till them...... Nuff Said.

[Basser15]

I was going to stay out of this, especially after I read the "other Site". But when I read monstercoues post that he has the tag again!!!! Well I won't comment on the other issues with the investigation, but that is LAME. What a CHUMP.

 

 

Wow, I expected a little more out of you Moqui. Maybe if you have met the guy somewhere down the line and have experience with him that might be a little more warranted but my guess is that you haven't.

 

Couple other questions that I saw on the thread:

 

Why shoot a bull in July... Because not many folks have had the opportunity to shoot a mature bull in velvet.

 

Why have auction tags... Those tags probably gain more money each year for the species and habitat then we will ever be able to contribute in our lifetime.

 

Why shoot the "neighborhood bull".... I usually find big bulls where they are at. Just because he wasn't 10 miles off the beaten path doesn't make it less of a trophy for the hunter since he obviously wanted to harvest this bull. And guess what, he now has a chance to shoot one out of the next subdivision this next season if he so chooses to, which I believe starts today (Aug 1).

 

 

For the record I have no affiliation with anybody involved and have no clue who the "CHUMP" is. For some reason I just find it amusing and sometimes irritating to see fellow hunters bash each other just because they might have an opportunity to do something that others might not ever do....like afford an auction tag. And just because somebody has money does not make them less of a hunter, which often seems to be the stereotype on the hunting forums. Heck, someday I hope I can be able to buy an auction tag and a San Carlos tag all in the same year....but with these student loans I'm accruing there's a pretty good chance it might not happen for a while

 

We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out and if it was indeed too close to an occupied building, well, he's going to have to deal with it. Maybe 'Ol Droptine will have to have an asterisk next to his mounted head just like Barry Bonds might have in the Hall of Fame...

[missedagain]

All the money raised for wildlife from these auction tags isn't worth it if you leave a bad taste in the mouth of the average hunter. Even if these hunters (az & nv) were legal in what they did it does nothing to improve and probably decreases hunter retention and recruitment.

[.270]

while we're on the subject, just how much money was raised, this year, by auction tags? not the raffle tags either. just the auction. and for the record, i'm all for the raffle. but i hover around 50/50 on the auction stuff. if all it took was money to fix things, our desert bighorn numbers wouldn't be tanking like they are. and they are dropping at a scarey rate. money does nothing with poor direction. and i think we can all pretty much agree that the azgfd seems to be like the lost tribe o' the f*&^arewees when it comes to having some direction. there ain't enough room or time to list all the stupidity that has happened there even in just the past year or so. and like i said before, if it comes down to a tapemeasure to decide if these guys were legal, then they shoulda went somewhere else. guys can say that the folks that lived there shouldn't be there and they shouldn't be upset over it, but they do live there and apparantly more than one of em are real yanked. heck, i'd be yanked if i lived there. for pete's sake, go hunt someplace besides in folks' yards, no matter what. dang, have a little sense about things. was the "hunter" the same old buzzard who shot the monster with these guys a couple years ago? i know he's bought a bunch of the auction tags. anybody know? if it is, i see why they were there, he can't go anywhere else. i'll make this surmise, i would be real surprised if all the auction tags each year brought in even half of what the application fees paid by all the other regular joes pay collectively each year. somebody should be able to find the number out pretty easy. seems like there are over 200,000 applications each year. this year it was $7.50 to apply. ain't that like $1.5g? (g means giga which is latin for a million). i ain't for sure, but i don't think the auction tags bring in that much a year. and even if they do, it ain't a lot compared to the annual budget. it may be a percent or 2, but no more. and like i said, what are they doing with it and when are we gonna see some results? i've never heard anything really bad, at least that can be substantiated, about the guides. but in this case, they may not be guilty of breaking any laws, but they are guilty as heck of some real bad judgement and have done the regular joe's, in Az. in particular, and everywhere in generel, a real diservice. i wasn't there, ain't for sure what happened, but it's pretty easy to see that there was a error in judgement. Lark.

[coues7]

How funny that you ask. I just spoke with a nice lady at the AZGFD Game Branch and she sent me following. It answers your question Lark!

 

I can't get the excel file with the revenue to load can anyone help?

Special_Tag_Awards_June_07_Comm._mtg.doc