Weird ring on brass

[joelpresmyk8]

I'm still new to reloading and have no idea what could be causing this on my brass.byou can see the color change and there is a little bit of a raised ring too. This case is on its 3rd firing. Hopefully you can see it in the pic

[forepaw]

I'm still new to reloading and have no idea what could be causing this on my brass.byou can see the color change and there is a little bit of a raised ring too. This case is on its 3rd firing. Hopefully you can see it in the pic

Normal compression during full length sizing. This is where the die body can't size any further because it is stopped by the lock ring clearance setpoint. If you sized further toward the shellholder, you might collapse the case.

 

forepaw

[joelpresmyk8]

Thanx forepaw! So it's not abnormal or bad?

[firstcoueswas80]

Until the brass starts to split there. My 7 LRM brass is splitting there, but it's on loading #5.

[WampusCat]

The "case head" or "web" starts near that line as well. The brass is a bit thicker there and doesn't expand at the same rate. It can begin to separate at the junction when overly worked.

 

You can take a straightened paper clip and bend a small 90 deg at one end to insert and "scratch" along the inside of the case near that line. You will be able to feel when the split is getting ready to occur.

[Pine Donkey]

You can reduce the stress on your brass at that point by neck sizing rather than full length sizing. Also make sure you are not 'bumping' the shoulder too much.

[joelpresmyk8]

Ok awesome thank you everyone for the information. Would you mind elaborating pine donkey?

[lancetkenyon]

Since a cartridge that is not a belted magnum spaces off the head, to maintain proper seating against the bolt face, you need to make sure you only set the shoulder back .001 or .002" back from your fired case length ato the shoulder. This lets it chamber easily, without seating too deep in the chamber, and stretching rearward towards the bolt face upon firing. Cases stretch a lot easier and safer to the front of the chamber rather than to the rear into the bolt face. When you push the shoulder back a bit too far, the brass stretches right where your ring indicates, and you will eventually have a case head separate from the body. It is a nuisance in the best case scenario with the body possibly getting stuck in the chamber, and dangerous in a worse case scenario, blowing hot gas back in your face.

[forepaw]

Thanx forepaw! So it's not abnormal or bad?

It is perfectly normal, and you should be good for a number of reloads as long as you keep charges below max. according to your manual. I would recommend annealing your cases after every 4th or 5th firing. To do this, get a household candle and a damp paper towel, hold the case in your fingers (by the base or rim) and heat the neck in the flame. When it becomes too hot to hold any longer, pull it off the flame, and quench with the wet paper towel. That's it. Be sure and check your case length, and trim any time they go beyond SAAMI spec. In fact, by the 3rd firing you probably need to trim, unless you have a minimum dimension chamber, and have been using mild loads.

 

The other posters have given some good info, and it would be a smart move to research your manual or the internet for what the different terms mean, and how to "read" your brass. Some of the clues can be pretty subtle, and you are doing the right thing by watching for pressure and failure signs.

 

As long as the fired case chambers easily in your rifle, and you set your die up according to the instructions, you should be fine. Don't forget to check for case neck splitting, it is common unless you are using premium brass. Neck splits go in the recycle bin, don't try to trim them.

 

Hope that helps.

 

forepaw

[lancetkenyon]

Forepaw, forgive me for this response. Not trying to start an argument at all. Just a few clarifications. I do agree the shiny ring could very well be totally normal in most cases. My .25-06 Ackley and 6.5 SLR show this ring after resizing. Throw them in a vibratory cleaner/polisher and they all but disappear.

 

I have never heard of a candle being used to "anneal" brass. Brass is not effected by heat less than 480°F. Most annealing starts out at 500°, and continues to 900°, or right when (or very slightly before) brass starts to turn orange or glow @ about 950°F. And since brass conducts heat VERY quickly, I would not recommend holding it in your fingers to anneal it. It must be heated uniformly around the neck, so it needs to be rotated or spun while being rapidly heated. I use a deep socket on a cordless drill to do this. It also acts as a heat sink, helping to draw heat from the case body before reaching the head. My annealing usually only lasts 4-7 seconds (depending on brass make) at the most with a MAP gas torch. Not long enough to conduct enough heat to the case head to reach 450°. I can usually pick them up within 60 seconds with my fingers as the heat dissipates very quickly as well. I also do my annealing in a dark room. Watch the flame, you will see a change of color in the flame from blue to orange behind the case right before the case neck starts to glow @ 950°F+/-. I anneal ever other firing myself. But I usually run hotter loads in my hunting rifles. But I would rather anneal too often than not often enough.

 

Quickly cooing it in water does nothing to the annealing process. "Quenching" is used to harden steel. The only way to harden brass is by working it. Once the heat source is removed, brass releases heat very quickly, so no worry about the base getting annealed an softened if done properly and quickly with a high heat source to the neck of the case.

 

One last comment. "Book max". Only your gun/cases can tell you what the max load is, not any publication or website, or friend who loads his own. It might be under book max (but I doubt it if you consider that manufacturers are notorious for have low pressures and charge weights to avoid potential lawsuits from morons who go right for a max load). And you will get conflicting information from various manufacturers anyway, with the same case/bullet/primer/powder combos. It might be several grains over book max as well. Seating depth of bullets, chamber dimensions, jump or jam to lands, bullet shape and bearing surface, lot variations in powder, primer flashes, neck tension, resizing techniques, brass prep....all make a difference in actual pressures. Seat a heavy bullet deep and it takes up usable case space, causing higher pressures with the same charge weight as seating a bullet out. But that I another topic of discussion.

[AverageJoe]

Well a candle burns at around 2000 deg so why couldnt it be used?

[5guyshunting]

Seems like people like the candle if you look it up.

[lancetkenyon]

Annealing a brass case is temperature AND time sensitive. I don't think I personally could hold a case long enough to get the neck to 900° before the base got to 480° and burned my fingers with an 1850° flame. Plus, it would take forever. Again, I have never heard of someone doing it before forepaw.

 

Candle flame: 800-1000°C (1480-1850°F) dependent on oxygen, humidity, wax, etc.

MAPP gas: 2925°C (5300°F)

Propane gas: 1980°C (3600°F)

 

While I have tried propane gas torches, it takes about double the time to get the necks annealed correctly, 9-14 seconds from my observations. That is a forced consistent temp flame @ 1980°C. The base gets WAY too hot to hold before the neck starts to glow or flame change. I only tried this a few times before I lost some fingerprints.

 

I will go try it right now though.

 

Keep up the discussion though. Good info, and I learn stuff every day.

[lancetkenyon]

OK, my apologies to forepaw first and foremost. A candle can definitely anneal brass. But.....I burned the crap out of my fingers while trying with a .223, .25-06, 7mmRM and .300RUM case.

 

It took about 30 seconds for the .223 to burn my fingers, with no annealing achieved. In a vice grip, I held it at the point of the flame for 1:00 with no color change visible. At 1:30, a very slight color change appeared on the neck (probably annealed at the neck only). At 2:00, neck and shoulder annealed.

 

For a 7mmRM case:

I could hold it for 55 seconds before it burned my fingers. No annealing visible. In a vice grip, @ 1:30, neck looks annealed. At 2:00, neck ad shoulder annealed like my torch does at 6 seconds.

 

I only had one .300RUM case that was not annealed, so I had to use the same case for all the tests. I could hold it for 1:15 before I burned my fingers. No visible color change or annealing. At 2:00, neck and shoulder annealed to my liking.

 

.25-06 burned my fingers at 50 seconds. No visible annealing. 1:30 showed signs of neck annealing. 2:00 shows neck/shoulders annealed like my others.

 

So a candle CAN anneal brass. I still stand by my response that I cannot hold case with my fingers and get proper annealing. And the efficiency is not there at all. I can do a case in an average of 6 seconds, vs.2 minutes with a candle.

 

Bottom to top: 0:30, 1:00, 1:30, 2:00, 2:30

 

Here are some 7RM cases. Top is 1:30 seconds over a candle. 3 on the bottom are 6 seconds in a MAPP gas torch.

[5guyshunting]

OK, my apologies to forepaw first and foremost. A candle can definitely anneal brass. But.....I burned the crap out of my fingers while trying with a .223, .25-06, 7mmRM and .300RUM case. It took about 30 seconds for the .223 to burn my fingers, with no annealing achieved. In a vice grip, I held it at the point of the flame for 1:00 with no color change visible. At 1:30, a very slight color change appeared on the neck (probably annealed at the neck only). At 2:00, neck and shoulder annealed. For a 7mmRM case:I could hold it for 55 seconds before it burned my fingers. No annealing visible. In a vice grip, @ 1:30, neck looks annealed. At 2:00, neck ad shoulder annealed like my torch does at 6 seconds. I only had one .300RUM case that was not annealed, so I had to use the same case for all the tests. I could hold it for 1:15 before I burned my fingers. No visible color change or annealing. At 2:00, neck and shoulder annealed to my liking. .25-06 burned my fingers at 50 seconds. No visible annealing. 1:30 showed signs of neck annealing. 2:00 shows neck/shoulders annealed like my others. So a candle CAN anneal brass. I still stand by my response that I cannot hold case with my fingers and get proper annealing. And the efficiency is not there at all. I can do a case in an average of 6 seconds, vs.2 minutes with a candle. Bottom to top: 0:30, 1:00, 1:30, 2:00, 2:30

Do you think a "Lee" lock stud for case trimming would work good for holding and turning the case with witchever heating choice you choose?