PRDATR Report post Posted January 4, 2016 Ranchers get away with alot. The people in Oregon are giving the armed community a bad name. Especially with the government already looking for a reason to create new gun control laws. Oath Keepers issued a statement today dissasociating themselves and advising members not to become involved. They have been getting some support on different hunting/fishing venues but anything I have see on public news postings every commenter is dead set against them and there have been everything from drone strikes to maximum force suggested to be used against them and I have heard they have now brought children into the building too. I can see it turning into another Waco. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues79 Report post Posted January 4, 2016 There isn't anything wrong with a person closing their private land to entry. What the game and fish needs to do is work to gain easements through private property to more easily access public land behind the private. I'm not against walking into land, but, I consider myself in a lot better physical condition to be able to do so. A lot of the private land also does not allow foot access anyway. 29, 30A, 31 and 32 are prime examples of it. Seeing the Klumps gaining grazing rights in 29 and 31 has me concerned about what they'll try to do in the future with folks hunting land around there.... Game and Fish are the ones that need to work for us, but there needs to be more of an education aspect to it that helps educate hunters about proper ethics while accessing public land. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe Report post Posted January 4, 2016 Ranchers get away with alot. The people in Oregon are giving the armed community a bad name. Especially with the government already looking for a reason to create new gun control laws. Oath Keepers issued a statement today dissasociating themselves and advising members not to become involved. They have been getting some support on different hunting/fishing venues but anything I have see on public news postings every commenter is dead set against them and there have been everything from drone strikes to maximum force suggested to be used against them and I have heard they have now brought children into the building too. I can see it turning into another Waco. So how do you suppose the public go about holding the federal government accountable for a complete and blatant violation of the constitution? Go through the courts? LOL. When people stand up and do something rather than nothing all of a sudden they are nutjobs and in the wrong? What they are doing should be taking place anywhere and everywhere the feds overstep their power. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Report post Posted January 4, 2016 Ranchers get away with alot. The people in Oregon are giving the armed community a bad name. Especially with the government already looking for a reason to create new gun control laws. Oath Keepers issued a statement today dissasociating themselves and advising members not to become involved. They have been getting some support on different hunting/fishing venues but anything I have see on public news postings every commenter is dead set against them and there have been everything from drone strikes to maximum force suggested to be used against them and I have heard they have now brought children into the building too. I can see it turning into another Waco. So how do you suppose the public go about holding the federal government accountable for a complete and blatant violation of the constitution? Go through the courts? LOL. When people stand up and do something rather than nothing all of a sudden they are nutjobs and in the wrong? What they are doing should be taking place anywhere and everywhere the feds overstep their power. The only people who support them are standing along side them in my book. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Sparky Report post Posted January 4, 2016 Do you think that rancher has a right to lock a gate that provides access to a forest service road that crosses his private property but then allow his "good old boys" or other's of his choice access? At first, I responded with a resounding NO until the question was put in the context of do I have the right to close a pedestrian gate across my private property that allows access to a public park behind me and choose who I allow to cross my land if I want to? You bet your bottom dollar I do! That said, we pay our taxes to manage all that land up there. There are too many stories of someone hiking around the closed off land to get to that good spot only to be passed on the forest service road on the other side by "good old boy Billy Bob" in his Dodge Cummins 2500 with the 100 class deer in the bed of the truck he drove right to. Is there any sort of easement on the road? Is it a forest service road or just a road into the forest? If it is not a public road he has every right to lock access to his land and only let certain people use his land. So now the question on the pedestrian gate, I have a 10ft. easement around my property so if your pedestrian gate is within the easement you can't shut it off. Kind of depends on how your land is titled. My easement is a utility easement only so only utilities can use it but if I build on it in the future I can be told to tear down what I built so they can run utilities through my property. Many roads are like that to our state trust land. People assumed they were public roads when they were not and didn't know what to do when gates went up.'We were held in a "hostage" situation to pay for access to state trust lands here by our new Land Commissioner. We pay a hunting access through our licenses but over half the state trust land is not accessible. He wanted $2 million/year when we had been paying about $200,000 for the hunting season. How would you feel to pay that much for 3 months when that is the yearly fee for other users? Now if that money was used to get access to more state land I would feel differently but it is not. The other thing is we play second fiddle to the primary land lessee. If we have public access the primary land lessee might say we "have a cattle drive that would be messed up by hunting" so you can't hunt during that time. Guess what ....We can't hunt that land during that time. That is just our state land but the same goes for FS and BLM. If it is blocked by private land without a public access way, the public can't hunt it but anybody that wants to pay a "trespass fee" or family only get to access it through the private land. You just have to find a way around the private land, even if you get dropped off by a helicopter. If you want to see it get real bad turn all the Fed. land over to the states and let it get sold to the highest bidder. Imagine not being able to get access to the Gila, Tetons, Kaibab, or any Fed. land anywhere in the west. So you know how I stand on that issue. The other problem I have is the people that think they are entitled to use the land because it has been leased for so long they forget it is PUBLIC land and not PRIVATE land. I have many family members that have ranches and lease grazing rights so I have a foot on both sides of the fence. OK rant over. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Str8Shot Report post Posted January 4, 2016 Sparky There are tons of roads FS, BLM, State Trust , even county roads all over this country that never had proper easements and never were given one when land was sold or transferred to private individuals and/or corporations ... These are roads that were cut and maintained to some degree with tax payer dollars at some level whether it be county , state or federal ... You can not fault the land purchaser for those oversights but the public should not lose access because of an oversight ... There are laws in which easements can be obtained by the various municipalities, sates and federal government if they really wanted to deal with the paperwork and $$$$ and IMO as a tax payer I believe it is their duty... A private property owner who cuts a road that goes only through his land and ends at federal or state land line does IMO have every right to close that gate and lock it ... But locking a FS roads that transgress far more than said private property, that has been being used and around way longer than the property and or the owner to locked up on technicalities is not right either. In 32 several of the places we would go and hunt would be an extra 2-3 miles from any road , but to Horse back or Hike in the extra 5 -6 miles now due to locked gates to see a big outfitter tent and 5 trucks at one of the sites used so many years ago via road access puts a sour taste in ones mouth ... I look at it as a public safety issue to... if something happens on horse back or hiking that is an emergency there is a Huge difference between 2 miles and 6 or 7 . p.s. on state trust land there has been quiet a bit of tax dollars spent in cutting roads for various industries such as mining and utilities as well ... Still, as Lark said, I do not see how what is going on in Oregon has anything to do with the locked gates in Arizona. Unless you want to use the example of The the Hammonds using the exact same argument most of us are when the Feds locked the gates on them cutting off the once used access to the top half of their ranch ... They could have cut a new Road if they wanted ... but why would ranchers cut new roads when they can take over roads that were made for them so long ago on tax payers or another's dollar ? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
520HUNT Report post Posted January 5, 2016 Maybe we as hunters should stand up to AZ Game and Fish like the ranchers are doing with BLM. We could take over one of their offices and occupy it until they quit managing wildlife for money and quit ruining our deer herds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted January 5, 2016 The Federal Govt needs to be reduced by 90%. We can start with.... Dept of Education Dept of Energy Dept of Homeland Security Dept of Agriculture The IRS The EPA BATF 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azslim Report post Posted January 5, 2016 here is another bit of education about what is going on in the west https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbcpzYPxxos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildwoody Report post Posted January 5, 2016 And then.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctafoya Report post Posted January 5, 2016 This should be moved to the poacher guy thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLW Report post Posted January 5, 2016 Maybe we as hunters should stand up to AZ Game and Fish like the ranchers are doing with BLM. We could take over one of their offices and occupy it until they quit managing wildlife for money and quit ruining our deer herds. Yep all ruined ain'the no deer left. How would you manage it? James Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted January 5, 2016 I guess somebody axed hussein about this. He said he doesn't comment on local issues. I guess travon and ferguson and all that crap weren't local. But now federal courts and federal agencies are? Lark 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZBULLHUNTER Report post Posted January 10, 2016 AVE Joe they were not tried twice. they were convicted in a jury trial of their peers. the judge decided to ignore the law and did not send them to prison for five years as required. The govt appealed and the mandatory sentence was then imposed pursuant to the law. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZBULLHUNTER Report post Posted January 10, 2016 Az slim you know what president signed the law requiring the Travel plan on U.S. forest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
